Blacks in the Empire

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-07-20 02:29pm

Granted, the Empire is founded along racial lines, with humans running the show and aliens being kept down (Thrawn being a notable exception).

Does the racism extend within the human species? Do any Black individuals serve in the Imperial Armed Forces?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-20 02:34pm

it is possible that the vast majority of the empires population came from
northern climates on their homeworld (coruscant, right?) and that
something caused the tropical regions of coruscant to be made
uninhabitable, except in a few places. that could explain why there are so
few black people in starwars.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-07-20 02:35pm

Black and Asian people appear to be a small minority.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-20 03:09pm

i dont think youll find any asian people from coruscant cause asia doesnt exist there

There must have been some event, tho, that caused the northern regions to
be the only inhabitable ones. Maybe warlike nature of the "euro" type
humans ended up in the near extermination of the remainder of humanity.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-07-20 04:32pm

What's curious to me is the fact that the races are still distinct, even after some 25,000 years of having hyperdrive, and presumably many thousands of years before that of being space-faring, and thousands of years before that on the human home planet.
I'd have thought that they'd have sexed each other into one big tan color.

Perhaps most of them did, but there were small xenophobic enclaves that lasted longer, and the people of color (and presumably some of the people not of color) that we see in the films have relatively recently come from these areas.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-07-20 04:44pm

The comic books feature black officers.

There are numerous black security agents on Bespin, along with Lando Calrissian. Mace Windu is black; Matthew Stover points out that most Korno tend to be. A few of the people Han met on his adventures with Bollox and Blue Max were black.

I have a feeling race wasn't an issue. You're taking a realistic demographic issue (that of Britain's being predominately white at the time of filming) and expanding it too far into cannon.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-07-20 04:51pm

Axis Kast wrote:I have a feeling race wasn't an issue. You're taking a realistic demographic issue (that of Britain's being predominately white at the time of filming) and expanding it too far into cannon.

My concern is, why are there still distinct races after so many thousands of years, unless the galaxy's inhabitants choose their mates along racial lines? Even if a significant portion of the galaxy is black or "asian" or white, or whatever, that only indicates even more strongly that there is, at least passively, a sense of racism within the human race.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-07-20 04:52pm

kojikun wrote:i dont think youll find any asian people from coruscant cause asia doesnt exist there

There must have been some event, tho, that caused the northern regions to
be the only inhabitable ones. Maybe warlike nature of the "euro" type
humans ended up in the near extermination of the remainder of humanity.

Where are Bultar Swan and Sei Taria from?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-07-20 04:52pm

Because George Lucas didn't want to hire only actors of mixed ancestry? Yes, I mean that. Point blank. I think, sometimes, some people here get a little too carried away in trying to explain away elements of the movies obviously tied to production difficulty or traditional pulp plot development.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-20 05:02pm

Robert Treder wrote:My concern is, why are there still distinct races after so many thousands of years, unless the galaxy's inhabitants choose their mates along racial lines?

Different planets, perhaps. People tend to be regional, and even if a small portion does move around, I suspect most would stay on their homeworlds. Races could have actually evolved due to this segregation, or conversely, races might have once been segregated and settled on different worlds for that reason.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-07-20 05:06pm

Axis Kast wrote:Because George Lucas didn't want to hire only actors of mixed ancestry? Yes, I mean that. Point blank. I think, sometimes, some people here get a little too carried away in trying to explain away elements of the movies obviously tied to production difficulty or traditional pulp plot development.

Have you ever heard of "Suspension of Disbelief"? To paraphrase South Park, "If you don't like suspension of disbelief, then you can get out."

Darth Wong wrote:Different planets, perhaps. People tend to be regional, and even if a small portion does move around, I suspect most would stay on their homeworlds. Races could have actually evolved due to this segregation, or conversely, races might have once been segregated and settled on different worlds for that reason.

I suppose that makes sense. If entire subspecies of humans have evolved, it shouldn't be too surprising to see distinct races as well.

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2003-07-20 06:12pm

Not sure about blacks in the Empire, but in the Republic and citzenry
of the SW world, they seem to be represented in a positive way.
Lando owned Cloud City, and served as a general in the battle of
Endor.
Mace Windu is a high ranking member of the Jedi council, and was
shown to have good combat skills.
Lucasfilm seems to have avoided the stereotypes that accompany
black actors. For example, Wars 1&2 are some of the few occasions
were Sam L. Jackson actually was alive at the end of the movie.
Other sci-fi series such as Trek, openly use stereotypes with black
actors. TNG had Geordi handling the helm at first (The E-D's white
crew had a black driver) until sending him to the engine room,
(like the old railroad lines, they had a black man shoveling coal
into the engine)
They also use another common stereotype in having a black
security guard/bouncer (Worf)
Sure they give them nice titles like chief of security, or chief
enigneer, but it is the same old put downs, only set in outer space.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-07-20 06:26pm

Telling you, Episode III needs Zhang Ziyi as a Dark Jedi Babe!!

Marc Xavier · Post by **Marc Xavier** » 2003-07-20 06:54pm

Equinox2003 wrote:Not sure about blacks in the Empire, but in the Republic and citzenry
of the SW world, they seem to be represented in a positive way.
Lando owned Cloud City, and served as a general in the battle of
Endor.
Mace Windu is a high ranking member of the Jedi council, and was
shown to have good combat skills.
Lucasfilm seems to have avoided the stereotypes that accompany
black actors. For example, Wars 1&2 are some of the few occasions
were Sam L. Jackson actually was alive at the end of the movie.

I think you're exaggerating and making a big deal out of something that isnt that significant.

Other sci-fi series such as Trek, openly use stereotypes with black
actors. TNG had Geordi handling the helm at first (The E-D's white
crew had a black driver) until sending him to the engine room,
(like the old railroad lines, they had a black man shoveling coal
into the engine)

Tell me that you are not serious in saying that.

They also use another common stereotype in having a black
security guard/bouncer (Worf)
Sure they give them nice titles like chief of security, or chief
enigneer, but it is the same old put downs, only set in outer space.

Again. You're joking, right?

Please tell me if you're serious or not before I respond to this.....

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2003-07-20 07:02pm

Exaggerating? I was giving LucasFilm a compliment. You did read it
did you not?

Tell you I'm not serious? About what? You have seen TNG have you
not? If you have, then you know what I'm talking about. Geordi's job was "driving ms. daisy' until they shipped him down to shovel coal.

Am I joking?
Ask me that after you have watched TNG episodes.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-07-20 07:07pm

Equinox2003 wrote:Other sci-fi series such as Trek, openly use stereotypes with black
actors. TNG had Geordi handling the helm at first (The E-D's white
crew had a black driver) until sending him to the engine room,
(like the old railroad lines, they had a black man shoveling coal
into the engine)
They also use another common stereotype in having a black
security guard/bouncer (Worf)
Sure they give them nice titles like chief of security, or chief
enigneer, but it is the same old put downs, only set in outer space.

Ok, Trek's writers suck, but give them some credit. They're not crazy. Or at least not that crazy.
You're looking way too much into symbolism here. Next I suppose you'll tell us that the Neimoidians are evil stereotypes of asians, because most of them sound like parodies of asians, and they're greedy businessmen, just like asians.

Crazy Goji · Post by **Crazy Goji** » 2003-07-20 07:12pm

Wait, didn't Mike do an essay on this whole stereotype thing? Go look it up in the "I want YOU" area of the page.

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2003-07-20 07:23pm

I never said diddly about Neomodians. Nor did I say Trek writers were
crazy.
I do not think they showed Sisko, Jake Sisko, and Tuvok badly.
Hence, I did not say they showed every black guy badly.
Worf and Geordi were shown in a stereotypical way.
If after seeing TNG, you do not agree, fine.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-20 07:31pm

Shovelling coal is a poor analogy. A better analogy would be the chief engineer of a real naval vessel.

Which is exactly what Geordi was.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-07-20 07:47pm

Have you ever heard of "Suspension of Disbelief"? To paraphrase South Park, "If you don't like suspension of disbelief, then you can get out."

I was afraid of this. So what you're telling me is ...

"I know that Star Wars, as a movie, had to be made within certain realistic constraints. I will however attempt to explain certain elements away as canon - though they were never meant to be - because I want to maintain continuity among the artificial universe."

Yes?

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2003-07-20 07:54pm

Shoveling coal was a perfect example. But I guess if a guy shoveling
coal was given the title of "Chief Of Motion Resource Managment"
certain people would actually believe that he had a good job, and was
not simply a guy shoveling coal.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-20 08:15pm

Um, he's a fucking engineer, not a coal-shoveller. He was part of the fucking command staff, for Christ's sake! You're a fucking moron if you don't see the difference.

Marc Xavier · Post by **Marc Xavier** » 2003-07-20 08:16pm

Equinox2003 wrote:Exaggerating? I was giving LucasFilm a compliment. You did read it did you not?

Yes, I did. And you're still exaggerating. Just because there is a non-white person in any given situation of power, prestige, or recognition in a work of fiction doesn’t mean that there was a conscious effort to make a racial statement with that character.

A black guy who's a Jedi (master, no less) and is totally and completely awesome. Why cant he just be Mace Windu? Why does it have to be an ideological anti-stereotype by Lucasfilm? Maybe George Lucas liked "Shaft" and Samuel L. Jackson just wanted to be in Star Wars.

Tell you I'm not serious? About what? You have seen TNG have you not?

Yes.

If you have, then you know what I'm talking about.

No.

Geordi's job was "driving ms. daisy' until they shipped him down to shovel coal.

Geordi's job was flying the flagship of the United Federation of Planets until he was given a promotion to Chief Engineer where he demonstrated more treknobabble brains and ingenuity than any of the other crew members (save Wesley). If you want to put a negative connotative spin on that, you go ahead, but don’t accuse the writers of having a deliberately racist reasoning behind his position unless you've got some evidence to share about the mental disposition of Rodenberry, the writing staff, and Paramount/Viacom.

Am I joking? Ask me that after you have watched TNG episodes.

I've been watching The Next Generation since they were playing new episodes on UPN (KCOP-13, back then). I disagree with your characterization, pay me due respect and answer my posts without negative insinuations.

Robert Treder says you're looking too much into the symbolism. Nay, you're inventing symbolism where none exists.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-20 08:22pm

[quote="Marc Xavier

I've been watching The Next Generation since they were playing new episodes on UPN (KCOP-13, back then). I disagree with your characterization, pay me due respect and answer my posts without negative insinuations.[/quote]

Completely irrelevant interjection:

I went to film school next door to KCOP in the late 80s !

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2003-07-20 08:35pm

Marc, true, I should have skipped the line saying you had not even
seen the shows, that was uncalled for.

If you don't agree, fine.