Truthful words

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-07-19 11:42am

"A protester outside a Bush fund-raising event in Dallas on Friday night carried a sign that said: 'A $500 billion deficit is a weapon of mass destruction.'"

(quote is from an article on-line at ABC news)

The protester that was carrying the sign deserves one major award!

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-19 11:52am

The deficit doesn't really bother me all that much; well it does, but Clinton ran larger deficits (which I'm sure this individual had no problem with) and the current deficit is still only 4% of GDP, which is while large not extraordinarily large. What bothers me is that in a time when domestic spending should be getting slashed, Bush and the GOP-led Congress are putting a massive new giveaway for the bluehairs into law that I get to pay for.

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-07-20 12:28am

HMM, that's funny all the publications talk about the SURPLUS that occured when Clinton was president..

I also remember all the college scholarships ther were available when Clinton was president. I know, I got my B.A. from one... hmm, those are gone now as well... Yep, we just had to use all that money to march into Iraq to prove absolutely nothing. We spent all that money so Bush could right his daddy's worng. GRRRRRRRR

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-20 12:42am

BrYaN19kc wrote:HMM, that's funny all the publications talk about the SURPLUS that occured when Clinton was president..

I also remember all the college scholarships ther were available when Clinton was president. I know, I got my B.A. from one... hmm, those are gone now as well... Yep, we just had to use all that money to march into Iraq to prove absolutely nothing. We spent all that money so Bush could right his daddy's worng. GRRRRRRRR

Yes, we were running budget surpluses (born from accounting tricks) during the late Clinton years. We were running deficits during the early Clinton years that were higher (as percent GDP) then the current deficit.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-07-20 12:57am

The economy has it's ups and downs. To assign blanket blame or praise to whichever president is sitting is just downright shortsighted. Now if in a time of recession a president does something stupid or nothing at all to help, then you may make a legitimate critizism based on that.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-07-20 04:42am

BrYaN19kc wrote:HMM, that's funny all the publications talk about the SURPLUS that occured when Clinton was president..

I also remember all the college scholarships ther were available when Clinton was president. I know, I got my B.A. from one... hmm, those are gone now as well... Yep, we just had to use all that money to march into Iraq to prove absolutely nothing. We spent all that money so Bush could right his daddy's worng. GRRRRRRRR

Tell me, do you make projections about your income ten years from now and then declare you have a gigantic surplus because your projected income exceedes your projected expenditures? That's what those "surplusses" were, and as Durran said, those projections were accounting tricks. They depended on the economy continuing to grow at the same pace it had in the late 90's, and they ignored liabilities like the so called Social Security "trust fund", which is filled with government IOUs. The Clinton budget, much like the Clinton economy, was a smoke and mirrors trick.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-07-20 09:50pm

BrYaN19kc wrote:HMM, that's funny all the publications talk about the SURPLUS that occured when Clinton was president..

Not a dime of which actually existed. It was all on paper and was nothing more than a deceptive manipulation of the numbers.

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-07-20 10:04pm

Stormbringer wrote:
BrYaN19kc wrote:HMM, that's funny all the publications talk about the SURPLUS that occured when Clinton was president..
Not a dime of which actually existed. It was all on paper and was nothing more than a deceptive manipulation of the numbers.

I never claimed that Clinton was any kind of a saint or financial wizard as far as the deficit goes. Bush has not really done anything better. I do know that there were more funds available for programs and for the educational system than have been provided during Bush's term in office. It aggravates me that he is running a high deficit on things that are not that important while he has slashed budgets from programs that are of great value to the American public.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-20 10:10pm

Any miniscule budget cuts Bush has made are negligible. He's the biggest spender since LBJ, and he hasn't accompanied that spending with massive cuts anywhere else in the government.

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-07-20 10:16pm

Durran Korr wrote:Any miniscule budget cuts Bush has made are negligible. He's the biggest spender since LBJ, and he hasn't accompanied that spending with massive cuts anywhere else in the government.

Exactly! He is spending more, but has cut many, many, many, educational and public assistance programs. That is where I get irritated.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-20 10:20pm

BrYaN19kc wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Any miniscule budget cuts Bush has made are negligible. He's the biggest spender since LBJ, and he hasn't accompanied that spending with massive cuts anywhere else in the government.
Exactly! He is spending more, but has cut many, many, many, educational and public assistance programs. That is where I get irritated.

Which programs?

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-07-20 10:43pm

Cuts to the public housing program that serves over one million children and more than one million elderly families.

Elimination of HOPE VI program – program turning outdated public housing into healthy mixed income communities.

Federal cuts to the after-school programs.
Federal cuts to the “No Child Left Behind Act
Freeze on Pell Grant Awards
Freeze of funding to the Child Care and Development Block Grant

*It is projected that approximately 600,000 children will lose child care and after school services.

Termination of funding for three mental health consumer-ran national technical assistance center: CONTACT, the National Empowerment Center, and the National Mental Health Consumers’ Self-Help Clearinghouse. Also cuts to centers operated by the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill.

Cutting funds of federal aid to highway funding by 7.9 percent.

Completely dissolved funding to states providing scholarships to outstanding students (I can’t remember the name of this one)

**All sources are from various news agencies, Federal Register, AFL-CIO

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-20 10:46pm

Were these real spending cuts, or were they just cuts in the growth of spending like I suspect they are? The fact that the head goonion in America is reporting these cuts makes me a little bit skeptical.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-07-20 11:44pm

It's like everybody says, Dubya has more in common with Reagan than he does with his dad. Who would have thought we'd have two conservative, spending-happy presidents in as many decades?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-21 07:21am

Andrew J. wrote:It's like everybody says, Dubya has more in common with Reagan than he does with his dad. Who would have thought we'd have two conservative, spending-happy presidents in as many decades?

Reagan was just a military spender, Bush is a big spender on both counts, military and domestic.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-21 02:17pm

I think the American public has to take some blame, during the boom years, I never heard anyone say; " Hey, we are making more money than we are spending, lets pay down our debts."

Wether or not surplus' where smoke and mirrors is not relevant to the notion that Americans are not serious yet about doing something about the debt or deficit spending.

We still have credit card bills for all those tanks and planes we bought in the 1980's so to speak.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-21 02:30pm

Americans can't make up their fucking minds. Tax cuts are always hot electoral property, but the spending cuts that should accompany are not. More social programs are also hot property, but the tax increases that need to occur for these programs to be instated are nothing short of political suicide. We want it both ways, but we can only have it one way.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-21 03:01pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I think the American public has to take some blame, during the boom years, I never heard anyone say; " Hey, we are making more money than we are spending, lets pay down our debts."

*sheepishly raises hand*

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-21 05:45pm

Howedar wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:I think the American public has to take some blame, during the boom years, I never heard anyone say; " Hey, we are making more money than we are spending, lets pay down our debts."
*sheepishly raises hand*

Gives Howedar a cookie for being a good citizen.

How is your state doing? Budget wise that is?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-07-21 06:01pm

I did. And Minnesota is swimming in red ink right now.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-21 06:08pm

Iceberg wrote:I did. And Minnesota is swimming in red ink right now.

I think most of the states are doing badly, notably my state. Poor spending choices are not limited to the federal govt that is to be sure.

I dont know about your states, but if you dont speak English you can ask to take a drivers test in your own language. ( spanish, vietnamese, cantonese, mandarin, etc ) Of course all the road signs are in English, but we cant oppress anyone can we.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-21 07:40pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
Howedar wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:I think the American public has to take some blame, during the boom years, I never heard anyone say; " Hey, we are making more money than we are spending, lets pay down our debts."
*sheepishly raises hand*
Gives Howedar a cookie for being a good citizen.

How is your state doing? Budget wise that is?

Its Oregon. That really ought to be enough, Mr. Californian.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-21 07:45pm

Howedar wrote:[How is your state doing? Budget wise that is?

Its Oregon. That really ought to be enough, Mr. Californian.[/quote]

Forgive me, but this just went over my head. ZOOOOM! Can you please elaborate?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-21 07:54pm

Your profile indicates that you are from California. If that is correct, you should be aware how deep the financial shit is up north.

Probably no worse than yours, but our financial woes are in a later stage.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-21 08:01pm

Howedar wrote:Your profile indicates that you are from California. If that is correct, you should be aware how deep the financial shit is up north.

Probably no worse than yours, but our financial woes are in a later stage.

Yes, Im from CA. Sorry, I asked cause I had heard that OR had troubles too, but wanted your perspective. Ive also been pretty busy trying to hustle money lately and honestly have not payed too much attention to any news about your state.

The sad thing is that some people in my state are calling for an increase in taxes to cover the gap. Yet, they dont get it, many of us are unemployed or underemployed ( ie: me ) and there isnt any extra revenue to get from raised taxes.

Sigh, such is life in the West. California, Oregon, Washingtion, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho: we are all states born out of boom/bust times and that cycle continues to this day.