The New Thought Police, criticizing Isreal = antisemitism?

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The New Thought Police, criticizing Isreal = antisemitism?

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Taken from antiwar.com
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j062303.html
THE NEW THOUGHT POLICE
The campaign to criminalize criticism of Israel
by Justin Raimondo


Last week, after Israel targeted Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi – and, instead, got a woman passer-by and a three year-old child, while 27 others were injured. – George W. Bush came out with some very mild criticism of Israel:

"I am troubled by the recent Israeli helicopter gunship attacks. I regret the loss of innocent life. I also don't believe that the attacks help Israeli security."

From the hysterical reaction, one might have thought that he had uttered a blood libel, or suddenly taken to wearing a kaffiyeh. Such a commotion! House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), reportedly strode into the Oval Office and threatened to push a resolution through Congress offering unconditional support to Sharon and implicitly rebuking the President.

God forbid the President of the United States should mourn the death of a three-year-old child whom the Israelis say was inadvertently killed. That this troubles him troubles DeLay – and that is more than a little troubling. I mean, what are we talking about here: aren't we supposed to be against the taking of innocent life? And why, pray tell, shouldn't an American President say out loud what he really thinks about the immoral and self-destructive behavior of a foreign government, albeit one that is ostensibly our faithful ally?

We hear constantly about the supposed rise of anti-Semitic sentiments in Europe: this is not neo-Nazi activity, or the "old" anti-Semitism of the Protocols, but the "new anti-Semitism," which boils down to criticism of Israel and its supporters. As officials of the Anti-Defamation League recently put it in the Denver Post:

"Today's strain of anti-Semitism usually targets Israel in some form. The most socially acceptable way to vent anti-Semitism today is to criticize Israel, the only state controlled by Jews, by holding Israel to standards not applied to any other country. Of course, it is not anti-Semitic to express sympathy with the Palestinian people or to disagree with Israeli government policies. But a hateful bias is revealed when critics subject Israel, and Israel alone, to invective and demonization, while human-rights abuses of other countries are overlooked or excused."

If you criticize "the only state controlled by Jews" you aren't necessarily anti-Semitic – but you probably are. And just what are these standards that Israel alone is held to? Any other country that separated out the majority of the population on the basis of ethnicity, and subjected them to draconian controls, controlling their movements, and keeping them penned up in special ghettos, would long ago have been declared an international pariah. How has Israel managed to get away with it – and, not only that, but how have they managed to go on the offensive, and target their critics as "bigots"?

Make no mistake about it: they are indeed on the attack, and not only in the occupied territories. At a recent international conference on anti-Semitism called by the O.S.C.E. , addressed by former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, a number of Orwellian proposals were floated

"Another idea advanced by some delegates that would certainly provoke disagreement if it ever became actual policy by O.S.C.E. governments was that ways need to be found to control publications and Web sites that promote anti-Semitism. One delegate, for example, Jean Kahn, president of the Union of French Jewish Communities, argued that the Arab television network Al Jazeera fomented anti-Semitism and that it should be suppressed."

The American representatives, far from dissenting, sat complicit with this totalitarian proposal, and hailed others just as bad if not worse. Giuliani, whose Mussolini-like reign in New York City made the trains run on time, endorsed the totalitarian spirit of the proposals:

"Words aren't going to suffice to turn the tide of anti-Semitism, which is once again growing in Europe and other parts of the world."

Israel's international amen corner is hoping that criticism of the Jewish state is now going to be made a "hate crime," at least in Europe. So that if harsh words for Ariel Sharon aren't accompanied by equally harsh words for, say, Yasser Arafat, the author may find him- or herself fined, jailed, and silenced. The ever-expanding definition of "anti-Semitism" is certain to put a chill on Israel's critics, as the socialist EU imposes limitations on speech throughout the continent: even, now, in England. The campaign to stamp out all but the mildest criticism of Israel is also likely to impinge on the Internet, as the New York Times reports:

"That idea [the banning of Al Jazeera] was not challenged, given the nature of the conference proceedings, but it also did not become a main theme of the conference, though worries about the power of the Internet to spread anti-Semitism did. 'Hypertexts and cybertexts are mostly imitations through which the social deviancy present in society speaks,' Jacques Picard, a professor at the University of Basel in Switzerland told the conferees. His point was that the ideas being expressed on the Internet hate sites are imitations of old anti-Semitic notions but that they have gained new force both by the power of the Internet and by the anonymity of many of those who use it.

'What's new here is that the Internet disseminates these ideas with the protection of anonymity,' Mr. Picard said. 'Anonymity should be lifted.'"

This pompous frog flapping his lips about "hypertexts and cybertexts" is the voice of the new Euro-commies, at once absurd and deadly dangerous. "Hate speech" as defined by some committee of commissars is a crime throughout Europe, including the once-free British isles, as well as Canada. And our own would-be commissars on this side of the Atlantic are all too eager to start implementing the same totalitarian methods here.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center, to its ever-lasting shame, has been especially active on this front, leading the charge to enforce and extend "hate speech" laws that could never be enacted in the United States without first overturning the First Amendment. That hasn't happened, as yet. They can get away with banning newspapers and prohibiting speech in Iraq on the grounds of an "incitement" to violence, but treating U.S. citizens like the inhabitants of a conquered province is still out of bounds. For how much longer is an open question….

What really disgusts me is the silence of the so-called "libertarians," who are so quick to pounce on instances of censorship, both real and imagined, especially when it comes to the Internet. Yet a campaign that seeks to ban plain speech about Israel and its supporters is ignored. If only Israeli radio had been forbidden to play the music of Eminem, perhaps then the gang over at Reason might have noticed what's up. And then there's that fearless defender of freedom, Glenn Reynolds, who hails the "liberation" of Iraq, but can't be bothered to notice a major American politician's endorsement of Ba'athist methods. As the Thought Police go after the Internet, the fake "libertarians" have nothing to say, because they're just soooo wound up over Senator Orrin Hatch's anti-"rave" legislation.

The goal of this O.S.C.E. initiative is to apply the same standards to criticism of Israel that have been enforced in regard to matters of race, religion, and ethnicity. Taki Theodoracopoulos, the British columnist and socialite, is now under "investigation" for his politically incorrect remarks in The Spectator on Britain's growing criminal underclass. In Europe, today, opposition to an open borders policy on immigration is for all intents and purposes an illegal act, along with displaying Nazi paraphernalia and denying the Holocaust.

The enemies of Israel are supposed to be infused with an ungodly hate, and in the socialist utopia of a united Europe, such nasty emotions are verboten. This has historically been a leftist idea: if we ban hateful expressions, we can socially engineer society in a less hateful direction. That's what campus "speech codes" are all about. But who really hates whom? Who is trying to shut up whom? And who has now arisen to parrot the politically correct thought control methods once confined to the multi-culti left? Giuliani is a Republican politician, albeit one from New York City, and not just any Republican, mind you, but one who has been prominently mentioned as a candidate for high national office – as a replacement for Cheney on the national ticket, if the Vice President should be felled by health problems, or even in the top spot in 2004.

The passage of a constitutional amendment forbidding Giuliani from holding any office higher than mayor is, perhaps, just a thought. Short of that, however, I cannot think of a single measure that would ensure us protection from the draconian designs of Manhattan's Il Duce, unless it's an outcry from the supposedly oh-so-influential "blogosphere," whose yipping and yapping drove Trent Lott from the Republican leadership. If only we could somehow shame Giuliani into retracting or somehow modifying his rash endorsement of a radically anti-American proposal. After all, he's advocating the abolition of the First Amendment – and he did it on foreign soil! So, where's the outrage, bloggers?

The tactics of the pro-Israel crowd are bound to backfire. Americans don't like to be told what they can read, or hear, and they aren't easily intimidated, either physically or intellectually. Israel's amen corner can scream "anti-Semitism" all they want, but the actions of the Israeli government in the West Bank and Gaza are not winning them any friends in the U.S.

When the President of the United States can be forced to make an abrupt about-face, is it a "hate crime" to point to the power of the Israeli lobby? Is it "anti-Semitic" to wonder how and why Tom DeLay can threaten the President of the United States, the leader of his party – and win? Is it a "conspiracy theory" to observe that Israel always gets what it wants from the U.S. government, come hell or high water, and to wonder out loud: now, why is that?

Israel's supporters are well-organized and well-funded; what's more, they are strategically placed within the Republican coalition, with unconditional support for the policies of the ruling Likud party coming from fundamentalist Christians and the influential neoconservative faction, which dominates the making of foreign policy at the highest reaches of this administration. What amounts to an Israeli fifth column in the U.S. is not only well-placed, but exceedingly militant: they don't just attack their enemies, they go for the jugular, branding them with the stain of alleged "anti-Semitism" and cutting off all debate. Increasingly, they are seeking to use the power of the State to silence their enemies.

Stanley Kurtz, writing in National Review, is right on the cutting edge of this battle: he recently testified before Congress that "one-sided" criticism of Israel in publicly funded institutions of higher learning must be banned. Mideast scholars are "anti-American," avers Kurtz, especially the followers of Edward Said, and he proposes nothing less than a "supervisory board" to conduct investigations of scholars who might be guilty of a "hate crime." Senator Rick Santorum is also on board this Orwellian campaign to purge the universities of voices not amenable to the Amen Corner.

Ruthless, single-minded, and increasingly desperate, Israel's lobby, in the U.S. and internationally, is a force for evil. In the realm of foreign policy, its advocates are the loudest and the shrillest calling for war. In the domestic policy arena, too, the pro-Israel camp is increasingly unafraid to call for outright repression. We all remember what the outspokenly pro-Israel New York Sun had to say about denying a parade permit to the anti-war protests: they opined, furthermore, that in the event the protest was allowed to proceed, the FBI ought to have shown up and started taking names.

As even a wartime President at the height of his popularity cowers before the power of the Lobby, it's almost as if the perpetrators of this dangerous nonsense realize that it will provoke real anti-Semitism, and fuel the fires of hate – to what end, is hard to say. But let them consider, for a moment, the possible consequences of their success. This kind of stuff can backfire all too easily on the would-be ayatollahs of Middle East scholarship and deniers of parade permits.

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Post by Axis Kast »

People reach this conclusion in the very same way that an Egyptian might believe that the War on Terrorism to be a war on the Muslims of the world.

Let’s follow the Egyptian’s logic:

1. The United States is declaring a “War on Terrorism.”

2. Most terrorists are Muslim; efforts to end terrorism endorsed by governments focus on Muslim countries.

3. Any elimination of a Muslim country would probably result in American occupation.

4. Any American occupation will leave room for Western intrusion.

5. Any elimination of a Muslim state inherently weakens the strength of Muslim theocracy as an institution.

6. The “War on Terrorism” is inherently anti-Islam.


With Israel:

1. Any criticism of Israel is likely to have political implications.

2. Said political implications usually result in rebukes of the Israeli system.

3. Rebukes of the Israeli system leave Israeli officials fearful of political or diplomatic consequences.

4. Fearful of angering the United States or Europe, Israel will fail to follow up on terrorism with retaliatory raids.

5. Retaliatory raids are a sign of strength; without them, Muslims are encouraged.

6. Encouraging Muslims could lead to a general war on Israel.

7. If Israel is destroyed, its Jewish population will be slaughtered.

8. Most people in the world probably wouldn’t be too concerned; after all, they hide anti-Semitic concerns and make anti-Semitic remarks thoughtlessly and regularly.

9. Any criticism of Israel is probably anti-Semitic – and could lead to another Holocaust.
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Post by Dahak »

Israel is just a country, and as such can be criticized. The fact that it happens to be consisted mostly of Jews doesn' change that.
If a country implements methods like they do against Palestinians, they have to face critique for it. They want to be democratic, they should start living with the fact that freedom of speech exists.

If Germany did the things Israel does against Palestinians, to a minority in our country, you could hear the international and media outcry straight from the next galaxy.

All in all, Israel shoudl just grow up.
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Post by Axis Kast »

I'm not advocating for either side - merely exposing logic.
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Post by Xenophobe3691 »

I dunno, Israel's in a very precarious position right now. Not many other countries in the world have been threatened with total annihilation of themselves and their population by every single country around, along with repeated attempts to do so. Israel also has to maintain the image of strength while also maintaining their public image and their humanity in the first place (look to Rotten.com for pictures of the massacre at Jenin :shock: ) Most of us here in the U.S.A. have forgotten what it's like to have enemies on all sides, and to constantly feel your very life threatened by people who've been taught from the crib to hate you (Whatever you say about the Palestinians, I have NEVER seen an Israeli kids show where kids sing about how they'll martyr themselves to the cause and scatter the infidels' blood). I'm not saying that they're innocent, I'm just saying that the media does not really portray what it's like over there. You have to go there to really know what's happening.
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Post by Durandal »

This kind of bullshit has been around for a long time. I remember talking with my sister about this and telling her that I thought that Israel shouldn't be a nation because it's a nation founded on racist premises, and that it was wrong to just kick the Palestinians out after World War II. She thought I was being anti-Semitic, because her roommate and best friend at the time was Jewish. And she's been to anti-war rallies, for crying out loud!

Whatever you say about Israel, they have a great PR department. They've done a very thorough job with Europe in garnering sympathy. I don't mean to sound cruel, but it's time they stopped playing the Holocaust card to pull at everyone's heart strings and start taking care of themselves.
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Post by Joe »

Ah, lectures on anti-Semitism from a Buchananite, Tianamen Square apologist.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Durran Korr wrote:Ah, lectures on anti-Semitism from a Buchananite, Tianamen Square apologist.
Who?
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Post by Xenophobe3691 »

Here's some new information for y'all. The Holocaust by no means created Israel. It was already on the way to formation, and would have been created sooner if it hadn't been for the British spending most of their time fighting World War II. Read about Thomas Balfour (SP?). Jewish migrations to Israel started before the turn of the century. The place was even partitioned according to predominant Jewish/Palestinian populations. They had their own resistance movements, the largest was called the Haganah. This organization was responsible for protecting the settlements from Arab raids (Legally they weren't even allowed to own guns, even though the Palestinians were allowed to have them. And they did use them) Ever wonder how they had a defense organization just a few hours after declaring their own independence? Please read up on Israeli history, you'll find it a lot different than most people would think. And this does include those idiot pro-Israel fundies who want the Dome of the Rock destroyed.

Oh, and please tell me how Zionism = Racism. Again I must repeat that racism can only apply to an ethnic group. Judaism is not an ethnic group, not by a long shot. While they do have their own culture, any person can join, if they have the will. How many people can convert from Black to White? Asian to Black? White to Black? None. (And don't bring Michael Jackson into this, he's still genetically Black.) Now how many can convert from Christianity to Judaism? I have an example living in my house. My mother.
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Post by Joe »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Ah, lectures on anti-Semitism from a Buchananite, Tianamen Square apologist.
Who?
Justin Raimondo. I should also add that he's gay; not that that matters, but a gay guy cheering Buchanan is kind of like a Jew cheering Hitler.
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Post by Saurencaerthai »

It's a procarious position Israel's in. Attack a car with a Hamas leader, accidentally kill a few civs, and they get the rap for the civs. The other sad thing is that much of the world doesn't understand some of the differences in the middeast interactions with the rest of the world, which doesn't help. The interaction between groups is still very much a "my tribe vs. your tribe" mentality, and so I could understand totally why someone might bring racism into the discussion.
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Post by Axis Kast »

Whatever you say about Israel, they have a great PR department. They've done a very thorough job with Europe in garnering sympathy. I don't mean to sound cruel, but it's time they stopped playing the Holocaust card to pull at everyone's heart strings and start taking care of themselves.
European opinion has shifted significantly - and only partly in relation to the rising populations of North African immigrants. Their increasingly Utopian worldview simply doesn't meld with Israel's aggressive politics.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

I am shocked.

No, really, what a big freakin' suprise. Not four hours ago I was listening to the Republics accuse the Democrats of being anti-Catholic, now it's the Dems accusing the Reps of being anti-Jewish. Welcome to the Wars of Religion, version 2.0, complete with imperial princes.
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Post by Howedar »

Fuck Israel. You call me anti-semitic because of that? Fuck you too, then.
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Post by Howedar »

It should be noted that this is precariously close to a banned topic...
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Post by kojikun »

Howedar wrote:It should be noted that this is precariously close to a banned topic...
Why? This thread is entirely within the outliens of the SDN charter, namely Mockery of Stupid People, which includes the government of and those behind setting up the state of Israel and its unofficial anti-Arabic stand.
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Post by LT.Hit-Man »

Oh for fuck sakes this is way to much.
Shit next thing you know it'll get so fucked up that if a white man gets into an agrument he'll be called a menber of the KKK.
Shit I say nuke the entire middle east and be done with this shit.
I just can not stand all the double standers in this whole mess mess.
I mean what the fuck if some one does something that you do not like you should have the right to speak your mind on the matter without being labled a bigot and what not.
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Post by Edi »

The author of that article is so full of shit we need a new sewer system to dump it all in. By the looks of it, he's never been to Europe in person and has taken every possible rumor he's heard to support a case he could well have made without them.

Yes, hate-speech (typically defined as concentrated political effort at inciting hatred against an ethnic/racial minority) is banned. Neo-nazi organizations are banned almost everywhere, because the very agenda they definbe themselves by fulfills the hate-speech criteria.

Criticism of Israel is certainly not banned. Israel considers Europe anti-Semitic because most European countries don't keep quiet in face of its policies. Thing is, most of Europe kept real quiet in face of certain of Hitler's policies 70 years ago and some really bitter lessons were learned from that. It won't happen again, though criticizing Israel is a political hot potato because of the (almost always false) accusations of anti-Semitism.

But the assertion that there is some overarching censorship that penetrates every level of society in place in all nations is just patently ludicrous.

If the idiot wants to tackle the issue of attempted silencing of Israel's critics in America, he might as well have just used the 1st Amendment to make his point. We know just how vocal the amen brigade is from encounters with idiots like those at RR and elsewhere. But the way this article is put together renders it utterly pathetic and totally laughable. There might have been some points buried in there, if the author had not been talking out of his ass from start to finish. Apparently this is not the first nor the last occasion that he does so either.

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Post by Peregrin Toker »

Criticism of Israel is not automatically anti-semitic, since there are Jews who criticize Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

After all, there's an immense difference between mere dislike and burning hatred.

However, I have noted that many people who criticize Israel (particularly Gentiles) have a habit of describing Israeli soldiers as diabolical, bloodthirsty murderers with no conscience. Also noted is that many people highlight Israeli human rights violations while seemingly ignoring Palestinian human rights violations.
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Post by Sarevok »

People reach this conclusion in the very same way that an Egyptian might believe that the War on Terrorism to be a war on the Muslims of the world.

Let’s follow the Egyptian’s logic:

1. The United States is declaring a “War on Terrorism.”

2. Most terrorists are Muslim; efforts to end terrorism endorsed by governments focus on Muslim countries.

3. Any elimination of a Muslim country would probably result in American occupation.

4. Any American occupation will leave room for Western intrusion.

5. Any elimination of a Muslim state inherently weakens the strength of Muslim theocracy as an institution.

6. The “War on Terrorism” is inherently anti-Islam.
1. Muslims have no problem with the war on terrosism, infact they welcome it. Without the cooperation from muslim countries the US would not have been as succesful in the War on Terrorism.

2. Most muslims are not terrorists and muslims are not the only terrorists in the world. They do not support the killing of innocents perpetrated by terrorist organizations. Unfortunately the media is confusing the muslim support for genuine freedom fighters with support for terrorists.

3. Yes they do not like a muslim country being occupied by America or any other nation. But they would not oppose it if it was for a genuine cause such as the first Gulf War.

4. Obviously you have not traveled to the middle east. Despite the presence of hard core mullahs muslim countries are all ready westernized whether they like it or not. From my personal experience city states like Dubai and Emirates are more like Singapore and Honk Kong. Sure they have some weird laws but other than that they are like western cities.

5. There is no such thing as a muslim empire. Muslims have been a greater enemy towards themselves than the Christians and Jews combined. Think of the Pakistan civil war killing 3 million people or the Iraq - Iran war killing a million people. More muslims have been killed by fellow muslims than by non muslims.

6. Initialy right after September 11 few muslims believed it. However Americas double standards and support towards Israel as well as the Iraq war has given the idea much more credibility.
I dunno, Israel's in a very precarious position right now. Not many other countries in the world have been threatened with total annihilation of themselves and their population by every single country around, along with repeated attempts to do so. Israel also has to maintain the image of strength while also maintaining their public image and their humanity in the first place (look to Rotten.com for pictures of the massacre at Jenin ) Most of us here in the U.S.A. have forgotten what it's like to have enemies on all sides, and to constantly feel your very life threatened by people who've been taught from the crib to hate you (Whatever you say about the Palestinians, I have NEVER seen an Israeli kids show where kids sing about how they'll martyr themselves to the cause and scatter the infidels' blood). I'm not saying that they're innocent, I'm just saying that the media does not really portray what it's like over there. You have to go there to really know what's happening.
Israel can not expect to banish Palestinians from their own homelands and send them to live in miserable ghettos and still expect the Arabs to love Israel. Their treatment of the Palestinians is simply inhuman. And Israel has nuclear and other WMDs which poses a grave danger to all of the middle east trigerring an arms race in the region.

Of course the Palestinians are not angels either. Militants like Hamas are no better than the Israeli army. The whole Arab region is innundated with anti - Israel propoganda. Their hatred towards Jews is fanatical. This has effectively created a ripe breeding ground for terrorists.
It's a procarious position Israel's in. Attack a car with a Hamas leader, accidentally kill a few civs, and they get the rap for the civs. The other sad thing is that much of the world doesn't understand some of the differences in the middeast interactions with the rest of the world, which doesn't help. The interaction between groups is still very much a "my tribe vs. your tribe" mentality, and so I could understand totally why someone might bring racism into the discussion.
Attempting to destroy the Palestintians will not solve the problem. They are fighting for a just cause. Instead Israel should remove all settlements from Palestinian terrotories and retreat towards 1967 borders.

Also I think muslim countries need to understand Israelis are human beings just like them. They need to realize that Israel has as much right to exist as Palestine.[/u]
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Post by Ace Pace »

Militants like Hamas are no better than the Israeli army
how can you compare radical suicide bombers to people who Mostly risk their lives to protect families, your stereotyping an entire army, by the actions of a few, most of the army isn't in this for murdering Palastines, unlike what CNN would report, they are in it to protect their families and because they dont have a choice.
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Post by Colonel Olrik »

People, cut it out or I'll close the thread. Israel-Vs-Palestine debates are still banned. And this one is building up to be particulary nasty.
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Post by Coyote »

This is an argument akin to "all salmon are fish, but not all fish are salmon." There is indeed some criticism of Israel that is anti-Semitic, but that does not mean that all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic in nature or intent.

The term "Zionism" literally means "movement to return to Mount Zion", the mountain that Jerusalem is built upon. That is what it literally means. The region immediately surrounding that area is referred to as "Zion", or "Tziyyon" in Hebrew. The Zionist movement had ben a dull murmer in Jewish circles for ages but it really picked up in the 1880's when Theodore Hertzl began championing the movment.

It was a result of the "Dreyfus Affair," in France, where French military oficer Captain Dreyfus, a Jew, was working on the French General Staff. He was accused of spying for the Germans, and even though there was evidence pointing to another officer, Dreyfus got railroaded essentially because he was Jewish and elicited little sympathy from the general public. The resultant kangarro court propted celebrated writer Emile Zola to write his famous "J'Accuse" article in Paris newspapers.

As a result of this, Hertzl decided, looking back on history at European treatment of the Jews (blood libel, Crusades, Martin Luther's polemics, etc) that the Jews would never find peace and safety until they had a land of their own. No more reliance on Gentile princes to extend benevolence. Usually Jews were the first ones blames when things turned sour, since Jews tended to stick to themselves and not integrate much.

Jews initially moved there and bought land legally, from absentee Arab and Ottoman landlords. Much of the land was underpopulated and under-utilized. Mark Twain visited the area and remarked on his disappointment that the "Holy Land" was so desolate and devoid of substantial population. Jews moved there in droves, fleeing a Europe they saw as oppressive to start a new life in a land they felt they'd always had historical ties to.

When people say "Israel has no right to exist" many do see it as anti-Semitic, since the option is to go back to leading unsure lives as 'foreigners' in other lands, wondering if one day the tides of governemt will change and bring about yet another pogrom or attack on them. History backs this up as a frequent occurrence.

The Jews did offer to split the country with the Arabs, and regardless of how people howl about the injustice of giving "55% of the land to only 20% of the population" bear in mind that:
1: A lot of it was land that Arabs were not living on originally, but was being actively ultivated and worked by Jews-- a farmer owns hundreds of acres of land but does not live on all of them, but they are still his, and;
2: It's a damn sight more consideration that the Native American, Inuit, Aztec, African or Aboriginal peoples got.

Israel has indeed brought some criticism on itself, I criticize them where I think they deserve-- but also bear in mind that they are not the end-all and be-all of the situation. Their adversaries are guilty of a great many violations themselves, many of which they initiated.
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In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
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Post by Axis Kast »

1. Muslims have no problem with the war on terrosism, infact they welcome it. Without the cooperation from muslim countries the US would not have been as succesful in the War on Terrorism.

2. Most muslims are not terrorists and muslims are not the only terrorists in the world. They do not support the killing of innocents perpetrated by terrorist organizations. Unfortunately the media is confusing the muslim support for genuine freedom fighters with support for terrorists.

3. Yes they do not like a muslim country being occupied by America or any other nation. But they would not oppose it if it was for a genuine cause such as the first Gulf War.

4. Obviously you have not traveled to the middle east. Despite the presence of hard core mullahs muslim countries are all ready westernized whether they like it or not. From my personal experience city states like Dubai and Emirates are more like Singapore and Honk Kong. Sure they have some weird laws but other than that they are like western cities.

5. There is no such thing as a muslim empire. Muslims have been a greater enemy towards themselves than the Christians and Jews combined. Think of the Pakistan civil war killing 3 million people or the Iraq - Iran war killing a million people. More muslims have been killed by fellow muslims than by non muslims.

6. Initialy right after September 11 few muslims believed it. However Americas double standards and support towards Israel as well as the Iraq war has given the idea much more credibility.
I'm explaining where concerns of anti-Islamic orientation among the Western world comes from. It's illogical in the first place.
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Post by Tribun »

Read Mikes site about the whole mess, and enjoy his view of the things. It's really refreshing.
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