How to deal with a topheavy multi-level contradiction

[Illuminatus Primus]

When one choice totally destroys half the Star Wars Saga and completely changes the definition of "generation", I personally find it less attractive.

My explanation had the blessing of already just explaning the Ruusan Reformation (which is the official fix) in terms of the wars to make it more plausable.

It simply didn't sound good enough for Kurgan, so he decided to redefine "generation" and throw out the EU.

[His Divine Shadow]

And thats why the Highlander chopped his head off.

Or something to that effect.

[Marc Xavier]

Harmonizing all three versus harmoninzing the two higher and declaring the third bunk.

I take it that Kurgan voted to "Formulate a harmony between the two higher (explain away the contradiction) and ignore the lower."

[His Divine Shadow]

Harmonizing all three versus harmoninzing the two higher and declaring the third bunk.

I take it that Kurgan voted to "Formulate a harmony between the two higher (explain away the contradiction) and ignore the lower."

No, to me it seemed no harmonizing whatsoever and just abritrarily choose one over the other whilst throwing a whole shitload of the SW universe out of the window.

[Illuminatus Primus]

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ht=#238508

Kurgan's original thread.

There's also a possibility that "1 generation" actually does roughly equal "1 year" by Jedi reckoning (the theory I posted, which wasn't my own about "generations" of Jedi students, in another thread).

That would theoretically resolve the two canon quotes without having to worry about measuring the degrees of wars, though it doesn't necessarily fix anything in the EU that says otherwise.

There's also a possibility that "1 generation" actually does roughly equal "1 year" by Jedi reckoning (the theory I posted, which wasn't my own about "generations" of Jedi students, in another thread).

That would theoretically resolve the two canon quotes without having to worry about measuring the degrees of wars, though it doesn't necessarily fix anything in the EU that says otherwise.

generation

n 1: all the people living at the same time or of approximately the same age [syn: coevals, contemporaries] 2: group of genetically related organisms constituting a single step in the line of descent 3: the normal time between successive generations; "they had to wait a generation for that prejudice to fade" 4: the act of propagating [syn: multiplication, propagation]

As most can see, Kurgan's bullshiting and deciding to change the English language to justify it. At least Darkstar plays at least remotely passable semantics to throw out the EU. Kurgan just invents a definition for a word that wasn't there, and then uses that, when the other explanation is perfectly reasonable, doesn't throw out evidence, and doesn't create semantic bullshit.

[Kurgan]

Illuminatus Primus, since this is such a sore spot with you, that you have to insult me, with the oh-so clever darkstar reference, let me dredge up another point you conveniently failed to address in that old tired argument.

I wrote:

Oh, and one other thing, you mentioned a it would be no different than any other "generation of humans" but I would point out to you that not all Jedi are human, in fact, they may even be a minority, in a galaxy-wide organization like the Jedi Knights (though only 10,000 knights, according to the AOTC novelisation... they may not be counting younglings or padawans).

These non-human aliens may have generations that are different than ours (longer, shorter, etc) so why should it be human-centered? Instead they may have had some other more universal standard (as I suggested).

We also discussed the "Jedi Academy" and how it might relate to the Old Republic which is from the EU, and something you also dissmissed out of hand, because it didn't support your theory, which seems to be that the only possibly solution is that Palpatine was lying or exaggerating (but Obi-Wan was not), and this is the only way to "save" the EU.

As to 'changing the meanings of words', we already know that this isn't so simple as you make it sound. Remember the whole "lasers" argument? Or the "lightspeed" argument? And need I point out that the official language of the Star Wars universe is Basic, not english.

Convinced that I want to "destroy" your precious EU, you'll stop at nothing to insult me. Seems you're proving the bigger asshole...


(not made by me, but it seemed applicable)

[Kurgan]

It's extremely hard to think Lucas wanted to change it given that he'd been involved not long ago in making an actual time line in support of the 25k figure.

I respect Lucas as much as the next fan, but we both know this is BS.

Lucas has had a "hand" in some way or another with a lot of the EU, if not all of it, in name only. It has to be liscsensed through him, etc.

Yet, he still said he didn't care about the EU continuity with the prequels, and he contradicted his own movies with the two statements about the age of the Republic, leaving the EU authors to pick up the pieces.

There are several things he has "intended all along" like the stormtroopers being clones, that came as a shock to most people, because the EU didn't support that conclusion, and as Wong and others pointed out, the Stormtroopers are clearly different heights and have different sounding voices in the OT. Then there's speculation that Lucas will re-edit the Special Editions yet again to fix this "oversight." Why can't this be yet another example of Lucas changing his mind and then retconning his own story?

So did Lucas intend "all along" for Obi-Wan to fib, or for Palpatine to? I figure he didn't correct the EU on the age of the Republic because he hadn't changed his mind yet, just as he hadn't changed his mind about the clones yet (or else we have to assume the EU authors were idiots to miss that World of Star Wars article in '81).

[Marc Xavier]

That Obi/Qui-Gonn pic is really funny.

[His Divine Shadow]

I respect Lucas as much as the next fan, but we both know this is BS.

I do know that we both do not know this, so stop assuming things, I tihnk you're full of BS.

Lucas has had a "hand" in some way or another with a lot of the EU, if not all of it, in name only. It has to be liscsensed through him, etc.

And Lucas was personally involved in the chronology and the Sith when working with KJA, FACT, so STFU with your assumptions and wannabe notions.

Yet, he still said he didn't care about the EU continuity with the prequels, and he contradicted his own movies with the two statements about the age of the Republic, leaving the EU authors to pick up the pieces.

Oh for fucks sake...
First off, he has not said he did not care about it, thats shitty paraphrasing on your part, secondly, he has fucking worked on the godamn chronology with KJA.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Synopsis: You want to throw out the entire EU as an even passingly-cohesive story, and rely on semantic "different language" bullshit to justify making up your own definitions to words, a totally unsupported assumption. It is the PRECISE same argument used by people who try to pass off WEG's mistakes over naval nomenclature "because it is SW." Well it is automatically assumed the SW story is translated into English, and suppositions on Basic are useless, idiot.

You do this in preference to the simple interpretation that the history of the Republic could be viewed differently by different social/class groups in distant stretches of the galaxy.

It is possible to make the three sources of information cohesive and they need not be all mutually exclusive. You're manufacturing contradictions and then using it as an excuse to throw out evidence.

And since I don't know of many other debaters who squeeze semantics to the brink in order to justify a totally erroneous and purist canon perspective, and who aides this process by deliberately refusing to awknowledge anything other than a total contradiction, so that you may throw out the evidence. So I do not apologize for likening you to Darkstar.

And the vast majority of all citizens, all Jedi, and all of those associated and concerned are humans, so "alien generations" is irrational.

But it hardly matters, since it can be interrepted and fixed so that both canon quotes and the EU can fit together, you're wrong. There is a fix, so there need not be a contradiction, therefore there is absolutely not excuse to destroy the EU as an even remotely consistent body of evidence, as your refusal to awknowledge anything other than redefining words and then making unfalsifiable appeals to crap about Basic, even though the only version of the SW story we have is English, and it is meaningless to make appeals to a higher source we cannot cite. It is assumed translated, and you're wrong.

Oh for fucks sake...
First off, he has not said he did not care about it, thats shitty paraphrasing on your part, secondly, he has fucking worked on the godamn chronology with KJA.

It was Lucas himself who told KJA to make Exar Kun not just a Dark Jedi spirit, but a Sith Lord, and gave him hints on a backstory.

[Symmetry]

So, in one place Palpatine says that the Republic is 1000 years old, and in another Obi-wan says that it is ~25000. There isn't any contradiction in that, it just means that one of them was wrong/mistaken/exagerating/lying.

I mean, just look at the circumstances when Obi-wan is taling to Luke. He's been living on a backwater planet for quite a while, and is getting a bit old. Maybe he doesn't remember his history lessons that well. Maybe hes trying to impress Luke. Heck, he lies to Luke about Luke's father at the same time. We don't *know* that whay he says is true.

Likewise, Palpatine might just be using a nice round figure, because its less syables than saying 25,000 years. And if Obi-wan is correct, it is literally true that the Republic has "stood for 1000 years;" it just happens to have stood for longer as well. I forget the situatino in which the quote was made, so I don't know if he would have had any reason to prevaricate, but I'm sure he would have if he thought it would have helped him.

[Ghost Rider]

And the Palpy vs Obi Wan on the life of the Old Republic has been meshed and played with time and time again in the PSW.

This also Thread Necromancy.

Locking.