Level of force for pacifying the Alpha Quadrant?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 12:56pm

Bean, the Empire does still need slaves and conscripts to toil in their underground sugar caves. And their duty is clear: to service, and maintain those robots!

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 02:55pm

You're forgetting Ossus, Droids maintain other Droids which in turn maintain the droids which build the ships.

SW tech is beyond using large human workforces, you only need humans to coordinate the droid's activities.
I'd also say that at least 75-80 per cent of a starship's crew could be replaced by droids, yet the anti-droid sentiment obviously present in the SW galaxy prevents the droids from getting important positions.

Slave labour is only useful where it's actually cheaper than automatisation, or as punishment.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 02:59pm

Then why over run the Federation if there is no benefit to be had?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-09-22 03:00pm

A couple questions: I've seen these Giel-class ships referred to several times, where would I see one? Likewise the Vengence class... is that the one I'm thinking of from Jedi Knight or are they a different ship?

At any rate, this is forming the genesis of a Star Wars RPG campaign: I'm having the players be part of a warlord's fleet that dives into an unstable wormhole rather than face destruction by a superior New Republic force. They end up in (you guessed it) the alpha quadrant, and the wormhole destabilizes behind them cutting off their return. They then have to carve out an Imperial foothold in the Milky Way, or die trying...

I was curious because I was thinking of a much lower total force for them:

1 Executor super star destroyer
1 Imperial-II star destroyer
2 Imperial star destroyers
2 Victory-II star destroyers
1 Victory star destroyer
4 Vindicator heavy cruisers
2 Interdictor cruisers
6 Loronar strike cruisers
3 Dreadnought cruisers
2 escort carriers
12 Nebulon-B frigates
10 Carrack light cruisers
12 Correllian corvettes
2 Lancer frigates

plus 1 mobile shipyard and other manufacturing facilities for weapons and droids (the task force was preparing a new base for the warlord's personal use.)

What's everyone think: will this be enough or are they doomed?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 03:01pm

Then why over run the Federation if there is no benefit to be had?

Natural Reasources Darkling, Droids don't grow on trees you know(Yet.... YET BWHAHAHAHH!)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 03:04pm

What's everyone think: will this be enough or are they doomed?

Heres somthing to take in mind, SW Minium ISD shielding Figures

1 ISD MK II
30,000 Giga-tons riight?

Thats 234,375(128 mega-ton) Q-Torps
Or X2 468,750(64 Mega-ton) Proton Torps

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:04pm

I didnt know there was a shortage of natural Reasources in the SW universe, I can think of a few places in SW galaxy that arent tapped by the empire - why not go there if they are short?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 03:06pm

The Gamma and Beta Quadrents have been Largly Left Alone Darkling, The Feddys are the hostile natives, think about it, 1/3 of the Galaxy has been explored, bets to get them out of the way to get to that other 2/3s

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:08pm

Mind you Darkling a war which is impossible to lose is always good for an opressive dictatorship like the Empire, nothing like a little war to keep thine people in line.

A couple questions: I've seen these Giel-class ships referred to several times, where would I see one? Likewise the Vengence class... is that the one I'm thinking of from Jedi Knight or are they a different ship?

The Giel class, admiral Giel's battleship, can be found a the Star Wars technical commentaries.
The Vengeance class are battlecruisers, though.
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:09pm

We dont really know whats going on the Gamma and Beta quadrants, the Imps could run into noe of those powerfull introverted super races and get torn a new one.

I just dont see the reason for an invsion apart from slave labour/ bigger populace.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 03:10pm

Oh and for Reference
100 Defiants pumping out 8 Q-Torps a Second(Best ever demonstrated)

Or 800 a Second

234,375/800=292 seconds/60=4.88 Mins of Solid Pounding from 100 Ships for ONE ISD

During that time the ISDs HTLs can pound out 200 GT shots every 2 seconds soo 292/2=146 Shots x 50 Guns=7300 Shots during those Mintues
Of course as always using bare minium figures for SW

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:13pm

If I were the empire I would prefer having a outside threat that was actually threatening not one I could over run in a week or so.

I quick victory doesnt really help in fact it gives the rebellion more ammo (figurative) but at enemy at the gate gives the empire good reason to crack down and people would see the empire as their only hope detering enlistment in the rebellion.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:16pm

Well Darkling you are saying why should the Imps take the Alpha Quad,
I say why shouldn't they? There's nothing to prevent them form taking that, it's just too easy, it's like if there's 5 Dollars lying on the street:
It's not much, and won't matter if you have them or not, but you wouldn't mind to bend down and pick them up would you?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:18pm

Except it isnt that easy to take.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-09-22 03:20pm

Darkling, you wouldn't necessarily keep tech from the former Feds forever. Give them a few hundred years to realize that they are actually better off under Imperial rule (frankly, I think they would be) to remove any danger of revolution, then you can just treat them like any other Imperial member group.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:21pm

Why yes it is!
You said it before the Feds have no chance against the GE so why not send just a bunch of ships and some troops to garrison the planets and you have another sector.
They have a galaxy's resources at your disposal, you just can afford it comfortably.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:32pm

It would be easy to beat the feds but the GE must still deploy alot of ships/troops/driods/building materials etc etc into controling the Feds and thats a lot of investment for no comeback.

Howedar: Yes that makes sense in a very long term solution however as we all know the empire was still born and isnt going to last for 100's of years, the form of government is unstable without lots of forces to back it up all that bringing the Feds into the empire will do is dilute the imps forces and give the rebels a few more trillion people to recruit from.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:37pm

A lot of troops and ships by our or ST'S standards (although 2 or 3 destroyers could probably kill SF's fleet), but not by the Galactic Empires, they have billions of Soldiers and hundreds of thousands of not millions of starships (at least we know they have 25000 ISD) so what's the point of sending, say, 5000 ships including 500 ISD there? What's the point of sending 1 Million troops there?
For the Empire, it's a minimal effort and a long-term investation.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 03:41pm

It would be easy to beat the feds but the GE must still deploy alot of ships/troops/driods/building materials etc etc into controling the Feds and thats a lot of investment for no comeback.

There is quite abit of comeback, tons more bases and a reason to build a number of new Shinny ISDs

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:46pm

1 Million troops wouldnt be enough hte Feds have at least a trillion people if not far more, they also have a very low end of 1000 worlds, not to mention that if the Imps want mor land they will need even further troops and ships.

Remember the Imps didnt have enough forces to police their own empire (not to mention hold off anyone wanting to make war on the Imp (Palp knew about and suposedly feared the Ssi-ruuk although I dont know why) so invading for no reason seem follish, invading for gains that out weight the costs yes but just wasting resources mays little sense.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:49pm

No need to garrison every single planet, just the ones with the resources
And merge them with Imperial civillian population.

Btw it's not sure you'll have to opress the Feds, while the citizens will lose their collective freedom perhaps they will enjoy their new personal freedom (buying personal starships)?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-22 03:52pm

Buying personal starships? yeah but I bet all the useless jobs get cut (Picards Vineyard for example - hmm I wonder who runs that now) that the fed citizens seem to enjoy.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-22 03:56pm

Well they probably won't get paid for that but they can always do that in their free time.
They will have to cope with the Empire's capitalistic economy.

(Picards Vineyard for example - hmm I wonder who runs that now)

Well you can always sell the wine and make good imperial credits with that.
Btw perhaps it's now run by his evil romulan clone?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-09-22 05:22pm

Three possibilities to get the requisite number of troops:

#1) conscript from the alpha quadrant as you conquer worlds

#2) cloning (since Ep II makes the clonetroopers=stormtroopers connection pretty clear.)

#3) droid armies

Conscription may seem like the least desirable method, but I can see it working: "Recruit Kyle, for your defiance the ISD Rage will now destroy your home city of Denver." Who's going to rebel when the Empire will slag their world? For that matter, the Empire has a lot of old-standing animosities it can exploit: there is no doubt still some animosity in the Federation towards the Klingons, the Romulans, and the Cardassians, for example. Wars with both the Borg and the Dominion would boost their popularity immensely. I can see Federation citizens volunteering to join the Imperial cause when they see that the Empire will exterminate threats like the Borg which the Federation lacked the power to deal with.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 06:05pm

Conscription would likely work in small, sector conflicts. I think it would be better if they were offered amenities instead of being drafted, though. Again, this is analogous to the Roman method of conquering natives. The best method would probably be droid armies. Droids really aren't terrible when compared with living troops, and they would still have firepower benefits over SF soldiers. They would also almost certainly have relatively good survivability when hit with phaser fire, and other weapons in Trek, which appear to be designed to kill living soldiers but not metallic ones.