T-800- can we build one?

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-07-29 08:18am

The scenario is, George W Bush announces that he will spend whatever it takes, and push heavily on the research and development of cybernetics and robotics, with the aim of producing a Terminator-like machine, i.e can move, walk, run, all in a human-like manner, and also has a computer chip/technology to allow it to learn as we do.

Can it be done? If we pushed all of our cutting edge technology and research, could we do it? If yes, how long would it take?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-07-29 08:51am

No. We are nowhere near the level of computing sophistication needed to build a terminator CPU. It's a functional quantum computer with quadrillions of simultaneous switching positions a neural net construction and full natural language programming.

We can't do any of those, let alone all of them.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-07-29 12:25pm

NecronLord wrote:No. We are nowhere near the level of computing sophistication needed to build a terminator CPU. It's a functional quantum computer with quadrillions of simultaneous switching positions a neural net construction and full natural language programming.

We can't do any of those, let alone all of them.

The only thing we do have is skin. Lots and lots of skin.

J/K

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-29 12:29pm

Forget the CPU. Can we do the exoskeleton? No. Would you want to? No.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-07-29 01:32pm

I vaguely remember watching something about why piston driven movement is a bad idea when mimicking human movement, too stiff and unadaptable.

Although, we could in theory cover some kind of endoskeleton in skin, but it would be grown foreskin from a freshly circumsized baby...

But on the whole, no, not with current tech.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-07-29 01:34pm

Wouldn't building one consitute the US military embracing mecha? *whistles innocently as he waits for the HAB.*

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-07-29 02:47pm

Stravo wrote:Wouldn't building one consitute the US military embracing mecha? *whistles innocently as he waits for the HAB.*

NO. The human design is the best design for infantry at the moment, because they need to be able to operate in urban areas. Mecha are big things, that have no reason for being humanoid.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-01 04:34pm

Vympel wrote:Forget the CPU. Can we do the exoskeleton? No. Would you want to? No.

The endoskeleton works, the models used in the films are testament to that (good ol' Cameron and his engineering skills). But the hyperalloy needed isn't around and we have no need for T-800s since we have humans anyway.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-08-01 04:49pm

Wouldn't it be better to send machines than humans who die? If the performance is equal, the lives of the humans are more important than whatever a robot costs to manufacture.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-01 04:54pm

I see a reason for a T-800. It's called there's a new Gor book being written.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-01 05:20pm

Seggybop wrote:Wouldn't it be better to send machines than humans who die? If the performance is equal, the lives of the humans are more important than whatever a robot costs to manufacture.

No, economics takes over human lives eventually. Like it or not, humans are expendable for a price, and Skynet only used Termies like humans because a) it had to infiltrate human strongholds, kinda hard to do if you look like a little tank, b) Skynet only used humans for science and study, c) money is irrelevant to a machine.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-08-01 06:08pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:c) money is irrelevant to a machine.

Resourses are not.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-01 07:07pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Vympel wrote:Forget the CPU. Can we do the exoskeleton? No. Would you want to? No.
The endoskeleton works, the models used in the films are testament to that (good ol' Cameron and his engineering skills). But the hyperalloy needed isn't around and we have no need for T-800s since we have humans anyway.

The endoskeleton most certainly does not work.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-01 08:31pm

Howedar wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Vympel wrote:Forget the CPU. Can we do the exoskeleton? No. Would you want to? No.
The endoskeleton works, the models used in the films are testament to that (good ol' Cameron and his engineering skills). But the hyperalloy needed isn't around and we have no need for T-800s since we have humans anyway.
The endoskeleton most certainly does not work.

Then maybe I just imagined Stan Winston using those models in real-life for the scenes in the movie and 3-D ride. With proper technology and the use of artificial muscle and maybe hydraulics, it *would* work. Unless you're saying your skeleton is somehow not keeping you from being a mush on the floor.

GAT: Yes true, but Skynet is a single entity that could easily manage itself far more efficiently than many humans, that and it needn't worry about food, unruly workers or such problems that we have now.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-01 09:42pm

Are you saying that a self-contained T-800 endoskeleton could be built today that could mimic human movements? Cause thats frankly laughable.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-02 11:35am

Howedar wrote:Are you saying that a self-contained T-800 endoskeleton could be built today that could mimic human movements? Cause thats frankly laughable.

Point out where I even suggested making a T-800 today as a military unit.

I meant that the T-800 design is very workable given the appropriate tech, that is, the stuff Skynet gets after working through the older series of Termies upto the T-800.

Of course, even if we could make the endoskeleton today with the hyperalloy and advanced servos etc. we'd still need the CPU, and the smallest quantum like computer is the DNA one now which is still fairly large and low-tech in comparison.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-02 02:51pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: The endoskeleton works, the models used in the films are testament to that (good ol' Cameron and his engineering skills).

No it doesn't, to make any significant forward movement the torso actually has to be carried on a guys back, and the whole thing is externally supported at all times anyway.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-02 03:11pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote: The endoskeleton works, the models used in the films are testament to that (good ol' Cameron and his engineering skills).
No it doesn't, to make any significant forward movement the torso actually has to be carried on a guys back, and the whole thing is externally supported at all times anyway.

That's because it's not a fully working model that is balanced as well and fully automated, it's merely an animatronic prop with certain parts working for certain shots. A human skeleton model is hard to move when it's not powered, but the design is sound.

But this is moot as we don't have the tech to make such machines yet anyway and we wouldn't need them since Skynet uses such units instead of humans.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-02 03:29pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
But this is moot as we don't have the tech to make such machines yet anyway and we wouldn't need them since Skynet uses such units instead of humans.

A design that doesn't work with existing technology isn't what I'd call sound or working.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-02 07:27pm

If it has never demonstrated the ability to function, how can you call it a sound or working design? It could very well be impossible to make function and you'd never know.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-08-03 09:41am

It seems to me that what AV is saying is that the design would work if we could minituarize the required systems for muscle movement and balance, what we have today is too clumsy and large to fit and work on a T-800 skeleton.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-08-03 02:34pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:It seems to me that what AV is saying is that the design would work if we could minituarize the required systems for muscle movement and balance, what we have today is too clumsy and large to fit and work on a T-800 skeleton.

Exactly, a scramjet bomber doesn't work too well with 1940s technology, does that make it useless too?

I never said anything about modern day technology making such a thing, you're essentially copying a design that Nature uses today anyway so it's not so impossible, so off the high horses.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-03 10:56pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:It seems to me that what AV is saying is that the design would work if we could minituarize the required systems for muscle movement and balance, what we have today is too clumsy and large to fit and work on a T-800 skeleton.

A completely unsupportable assertation when a T-800 endoskeleton has in fact not been demonstrated to work.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-08-04 02:32am

SirNitram wrote:I see a reason for a T-800. It's called there's a new Gor book being written.

No, no no no. Make it a T-X

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-08-04 04:56am

Howedar wrote:A completely unsupportable assertation when a T-800 endoskeleton has in fact not been demonstrated to work.

I don't see any real problems here, I have looked at the endo-skeleton and it shows joints and such where they ought to be, and artificial muscles and tendons, the problem is they are just eye-candy instead of actually working, so yes, the T-800 skeleton does not work, but I think with sufficient technology the actual moving parts could be minituarized enough to make a 99% similar chassis that could indeed work.