Animatrix - Cain and Abel (Matrix crossover)

[Shroom Man 777]

What i'd like to see is a bit like in that animatrix episode where they take a terminator into their construct matrix and make it choose to join them.

Might be harder though.... Terminators are... well.... Terminators. Might take a while to reprogram them, especially when they're set to "Kill so-and-so" mode. But if Katherine Brewder could do it, the Matrix dudes could.

[NecronLord]

What i'd like to see is a bit like in that animatrix episode where they take a terminator into their construct matrix and make it choose to join them.

Might be harder though.... Terminators are... well.... Terminators. Might take a while to reprogram them, especially when they're set to "Kill so-and-so" mode. But if Katherine Brewder could do it, the Matrix dudes could.

Why?

[Shroom Man 777]

What i'd like to see is a bit like in that animatrix episode where they take a terminator into their construct matrix and make it choose to join them.

Might be harder though.... Terminators are... well.... Terminators. Might take a while to reprogram them, especially when they're set to "Kill so-and-so" mode. But if Katherine Brewder could do it, the Matrix dudes could.

Why?

Dunno, just liked the thought.

[Rye]

You have seen the reprogrammed t800 in t2 right? And how it becomes more self aware in like a day or so.

[NecronLord]

You have seen the reprogrammed t800 in t2 right? And how it becomes more self aware in like a day or so.

Only because it was exposed to humans and protecting them. (BTW, you mean developed emotions, it was self aware anyway) and ordered to behave like them. Setting it to write wouldn't help them convince it to be on the side of the resistance. They followed their mission parameters - They would not stop following them, ever until they are destroyed, or until they are completed.

The only reason it stopped killing humans off as it suited it was Johns order. It had no loyalty to humanity, only John Connor.

Note, both the T-2 novelisation and T2 An Evil Hour eastablish that the reprogramming was done with access to Skynet's computing equipment. Considering that Skynet = 1e7 Culture Minds (T3 novel), I see nothing to suggest that the Resistance have the computing equipment neccessery.

[Singular Quartet]

bte, both the T-2 novelisation and T2 An Evil Hour eastablish that the reprogramming was done with access to Skynet's computing equipment. Considering that Skynet = 1e7 Culture Minds (T3 novel), I see nothing to suggest that the Resistance have the computing equipment neccessery.

If you are refering to a standard drone when you say mind, then I'll believe you. If you are refering to a ship mind, along the lines of GCU or larger, than I cry bullshit, and unleash the gridfire of fiery DOOM!

*Begins singing the doom song as fire engulfs the earth*

err... maybe not. But seriously, Skynet could not have anywhere near the processing power of a Culture Mind. A drone, sure. A module, probably. A Mind? No.

[Rye]

err... maybe not. But seriously, Skynet could not have anywhere near the processing power of a Culture Mind. A drone, sure. A module, probably. A Mind? No.

I thought it was mentioned somewhere the flops of the nnp is in excess of the average culture Mind?

[His Divine Shadow]

If you are refering to a standard drone when you say mind, then I'll believe you. If you are refering to a ship mind, along the lines of GCU or larger, than I cry bullshit, and unleash the gridfire of fiery DOOM[/i]!

Skynets computational speed is around 10^54 computations per second.

[Stravo]

If you are refering to a standard drone when you say mind, then I'll believe you. If you are refering to a ship mind, along the lines of GCU or larger, than I cry bullshit, and unleash the gridfire of fiery DOOM[/i]!

Skynets computational speed is around 10^54 computations per second.

I draw comfort from the fact that even though I don't know what 10^54 computations translates into but looks really impressive that regular unassuming humans out fought it and out thought it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

1 followed by 54 zeros.

10,000,000 Culture Minds. Ten Million Culture Minds.

[Stravo]

Roughly what can the human mind pump out in terms of computational speed?

[His Divine Shadow]

I draw comfort from the fact that even though I don't know what 10^54 computations translates into but looks really impressive that regular unassuming humans out fought it and out thought it.

Yes well Skynet didn't have planet killing power or could fight at FTL speeds.

According to some site I found, there are supposedly 9e49 atoms that make up our planet.

[His Divine Shadow]

Roughly what can the human mind pump out in terms of computational speed?

*shrugs*
Dunno really, nothing like Skynet or a Culture mind would be my best guess.

[Singular Quartet]

If you are refering to a standard drone when you say mind, then I'll believe you. If you are refering to a ship mind, along the lines of GCU or larger, than I cry bullshit, and unleash the gridfire of fiery DOOM[/i]!

Skynets computational speed is around 10^54 computations per second.

*blink* *blink*

Excuse me, while I wonder what the hell the authors of that book were smoking. Then, I'll wonder how the hell it lost. Then, I'll still say that a GSV, and maybe a GCU is faster.

GSVs are known to simulate universes in their spare time, which means they still have to run whatever ship they happen to be, engage in any random conversations people might be having with themselves, and still be able to simulate a universe, with whatever random laws of physics(or lack there of) they might want to put out on the table.

Our universe has 1E66 somewhere between 1E69 atoms in it. Assuming that they wouldn't bother with keeping track of whatever electrons are buzzing around, they would still have to do a rather disturbingly large number of things (realtime gravitations fields (and Minds are anal retentive perfectionists. They would do all the gravitation fields) magnetic fields, energy state calculations, veloctiy/force/momenteum vectors as an object is affected by previously mentioned forces) and this is just keeping to various atoms. This makes no mention of all the other fun particles and other crap that might be floating around, and that's only if they stick to something similiar to what we have for laws of physics. I have a resonable belief that just went well over the above number (1e54) by quite a bit.

I know this is assuming that a Mind would keep the total mass in a universe the same as its own, but that would be, quite simply, part of the (infinite) fun. It could also be assumed that siad mind would also want to start the universe from its beginings (whatever that might be, from Big Bang to, well, whatever it can imagine) and given that, well, it could take quite a while to get a universe to any intelligent oddness (except for the early stuff, which would, actually, intrest a Mind(no accounting for taste))

So anyways, that atleast gets a GSV above Skynet, as to a GCU or ROU... I wouldn't know, actually. Size/power correlations between different sized minds haven't really been made, except with GSVs and Drones/Modules (drones being about as smart as humans, only faster, and modules probably being about the same)

Well now, that was an almost pointless post. Go me...

[Singular Quartet]

1 followed by 54 zeros.

10,000,000 Culture Minds. Ten Million Culture Minds.

Where exactly is everybdoy getting this computational speed of a Culture Mind?

[NecronLord]

1 followed by 54 zeros.

10,000,000 Culture Minds. Ten Million Culture Minds.

Where exactly is everybdoy getting this computational speed of a Culture Mind?

here

The Mind in Consider plebas had a total memory of around 1e24 (Possibly less than) bits. If it could iterate it's entire memory within one second,then making it a trillion times faster, to show development since, and giving 5 exponents to provide an upper limit, this establishes them at 1e47 operations per second.

Your explanation for the 'infinite fun' is deliberately skewed. Do computer games need to simulate every atom? Given that what they do is vary it from the known norm it is much more likely that they can only simulate what they know, the history of one galaxy.

It's worth noting that the Minds were resoloutely unable to think up a better strategy than Uncle Stalin's retreat until you have an overwhelming numerical advantage during the Idiran war. Their strategic abilities are over-rated. There's nothing to suggest that a Mind in Skynet's position (Stripped of it's inbuilt warp units etc) would do as well as Skynet did.

And in the T3 timeline, where this figure came from, Skynet hadn't lost.

Stavro: The upper limit on human brain preformanceis 1e16 operations per second, It should however be noted, that as humans are very shoddilty designed (Another blow to the creationists), the human number of floating point operations per second (Mathematical calculations) is around 1.

[Xon]

If you are refering to a standard drone when you say mind, then I'll believe you. If you are refering to a ship mind, along the lines of GCU or larger, than I cry bullshit, and unleash the gridfire of fiery DOOM[/i]!

Skynets computational speed is around 10^54 computations per second.

I draw comfort from the fact that even though I don't know what 10^54 computations translates into but looks really impressive that regular unassuming humans out fought it and out thought it.

Shear luck, and Skynet spending a heck of a lot of its time doing the theory on the time machine & its other cool toys.

Almost definatly, it didnt consider humans a true threat after judgement day since it had wiped out the world's superpowers and had its drone unit moping up.

Also skynet was very small when it initially nuked everyone.

The civilian internet wouldnt last 15 minutes in a hot nuclear war, and Skynet would have cippled most of the computer hardware it could use. So till it started cranking out huge numbers of terminators & air units it was still very prone to a "Sucessful" attack (by sucessful I mean it would serious damage skynet's chances of survivel).

Ultra intelligence isnt going to help if you get caught in a double blind.

[Singular Quartet]

1 followed by 54 zeros.

10,000,000 Culture Minds. Ten Million Culture Minds.

Where exactly is everybdoy getting this computational speed of a Culture Mind?

here

The Mind in Consider plebas had a total memory of around 1e24 (Possibly less than) bits. If it could iterate it's entire memory within one second,then making it a trillion times faster, to show development since, and giving 5 exponents to provide an upper limit, this establishes them at 1e47 operations per second.

[/quote]
Damn, don't have my copy to check it... oh, well...

Your explanation for the 'infinite fun' is deliberately skewed. Do computer games need to simulate every atom? Given that what they do is vary it from the known norm it is much more likely that they can only simulate what they know, the history of one galaxy.

It was, actually, running under the proved notion that Minds are, in fact, anal-rententive perfectionists, most of which, in fact, are. For two examples, would be Masaq hub explaining what it would do if it had built the cart system on one of its plates, and another example is the fact that GSVs almost never use displacers for people due to the 1 in 64 million chance of an accident. 1 in 64,000,000. That, and I haven't read Consider Phelobas in a few years, I don't have a copy of it, and I couldn't poke around that quote to figure it out myself.

Whatever, I withdraw, decry unbeliveable BS for skynet, and then let the suspension of disbelief back in.

It's worth noting that the Minds were resoloutely unable to think up a better strategy than Uncle Stalin's retreat until you have an overwhelming numerical advantage during the Idiran war. Their strategic abilities are over-rated. There's nothing to suggest that a Mind in Skynet's position (Stripped of it's inbuilt warp units etc) would do as well as Skynet did.

Actually, they did that for two reasons:
1: They have so many resources, that they don't care if they lose orbitals or not, to demonstrate sheer economic might. Remember, at that point, the entire human population of the Culture could fit onto one, maybe two orbitals, and they have thousands of the damn things. They were just showing off in their own messed up way.
2: So that they wouldn't lose anywhere near as many ships. While GCUs are combat capable, they aren't anywhere near as powerful as an OU. As I mentioned, the Culture is ana; rentetive about keeping people out of harms way and making sure no/minimal loss of life occurs (unless siad people dying are fully willing to die)

And in the T3 timeline, where this figure came from, Skynet hadn't lost.

*Mumbles a few dozen obscenities about time travel*

[NecronLord]

It was, actually, running under the proved notion that Minds are, in fact, anal-rententive perfectionists, most of which, in fact, are. For two examples, would be Masaq hub explaining what it would do if it had built the cart system on one of its plates, and another example is the fact that GSVs almost never use displacers for people due to the 1 in 64 million chance of an accident. 1 in 64,000,000. That, and I haven't read Consider Phelobas in a few years, I don't have a copy of it, and I couldn't poke around that quote to figure it out myself.

I know some anal asshole pedants, doesn't give them unbelievable computational powers though.

Whatever, I withdraw, decry unbeliveable BS for skynet, and then let the suspension of disbelief back in.

Not really, Y'see, banks wrote the descriptions of how Minds work in the '80s, before quantum computing was known, since then, what we consider reasonable is a lot higher. If Banks were to write another culture book, we might get a higher quantifiable figure. Of course, he'd have to be motivated to do so first. (The last attempt to hold his family hostage failed. )

Actually, they did that for two reasons:
1: They have so many resources, that they don't care if they lose orbitals or not, to demonstrate sheer economic might. Remember, at that point, the entire human population of the Culture could fit onto one, maybe two orbitals, and they have thousands of the damn things. They were just showing off in their own messed up way.
2: So that they wouldn't lose anywhere near as many ships. While GCUs are combat capable, they aren't anywhere near as powerful as an OU. As I mentioned, the Culture is ana; rentetive about keeping people out of harms way and making sure no/minimal loss of life occurs (unless siad people dying are fully willing to die)

Both of which were true for Russia in WWII (in a way, obviously they didn't have Orbitals) and they too were waiting for sufficient amaments to be produced before rolling over the enemy.

*Mumbles a few dozen obscenities about time travel*

[Singular Quartet]

Actually, they did that for two reasons:
1: They have so many resources, that they don't care if they lose orbitals or not, to demonstrate sheer economic might. Remember, at that point, the entire human population of the Culture could fit onto one, maybe two orbitals, and they have thousands of the damn things. They were just showing off in their own messed up way.
2: So that they wouldn't lose anywhere near as many ships. While GCUs are combat capable, they aren't anywhere near as powerful as an OU. As I mentioned, the Culture is ana; rentetive about keeping people out of harms way and making sure no/minimal loss of life occurs (unless siad people dying are fully willing to die)

Both of which were true for Russia in WWII (in a way, obviously they didn't have Orbitals) and they too were waiting for sufficient amaments to be produced before rolling over the enemy.

True, however the Culture were still technically advanced compared to the Idrians, and were able to get away from them, although given the longvity of Culture tech, delaying actions were also likely needed to allow older ships, or less mobile objects time to get away (*cough* orbitals with engines strapped on and reinforcements (if nessacary) attached*cough*)

Actually, now that I think about it, its also the easiest thing to do, because it also stretches your opponents resources thin while you can pool your resources together for the big push back.

EDIT (More thoughts after I hit the post button) Now that I think about some more, the reason it was the best strategy is because it was simple, and the Idrians couldn't really do anything about it except stop the advance, which would, in turn, allow the Culture more time and resources to construct the war fleets o` doom that would soon crush them in retaliation. Remember, a simple, effective strategy is better than weird complex ones that may or may not work.

[NecronLord]

I never said that they were stupid, only that there's no proof they're incredibly smart. It's a highly effective tactic against fundies commited to stopping and consolidating every planet.

[Singular Quartet]

I never said that they were stupid, only that there's no proof they're incredibly smart. It's a highly effective tactic against fundies commited to stopping and consolidating every planet.

Idrians didn't have much choice. They had to stop and check out each world, because there might be some rather nasty surprises hiding in them.

For example, a Mind with a similiar atitude to Lasting Damage could, for instance, get the aid of a few GSVs and crash build a hidden manufacturing site below the surface of a planet. Let the Idrians pass through the system, and then crash build a fleet of warships using the planet's mass. Within a month or two, you could have a rather annoyingly large fleet of warships running around destroying an invader's supply chain.

[NecronLord]

It's mentioned in the appendix that it was a religious thing IIRC.

[Singular Quartet]

It's mentioned in the appendix that it was a religious thing IIRC.

Like I said, I haven't read the book in years, and I don't have acess to a copy anymore.

Anyways, this is rather off-topic.

[His Divine Shadow]

nonono, keep going, this is interesting.