Centrist Democrats fear party losing middle class

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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

SirNitram wrote: Shep, you know I consider you a friend, but that you beleive that's the same as a good healthcare system, it speaks volumes, and they are not good volumes.
I agree the current health care system is fucked, what with ridiculous fees,
what the fuck?!?! $40 dollars to fucking sew up a fucking cut? Fuck that
shit!

But do we really need to nationalize a major major section of our economy?

If you think the DMZ is bad enough, just imagine the paperwork you'd
have to go through for a nationalized health care plan!
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Post by Iceberg »

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Shep, you know I consider you a friend, but that you beleive that's the same as a good healthcare system, it speaks volumes, and they are not good volumes.
I agree the current health care system is fucked, what with ridiculous fees,
what the fuck?!?! $40 dollars to fucking sew up a fucking cut? Fuck that
shit!

But do we really need to nationalize a major major section of our economy?
There's a BIG difference between having a national health care plan that will cover you if you can't get or pay for other coverage (what Dean wants to implement) and nationalizing all health care (what Hillary wanted to implement).
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Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Shep, you know I consider you a friend, but that you beleive that's the same as a good healthcare system, it speaks volumes, and they are not good volumes.
I agree the current health care system is fucked, what with ridiculous fees,
what the fuck?!?! $40 dollars to fucking sew up a fucking cut? Fuck that
shit!
You should see what they do if they think you have Hep B.
But do we really need to nationalize a major major section of our economy?
HMO's aren't doing a good job, so I would say yes.
If you think the DMZ is bad enough, just imagine the paperwork you'd
have to go through for a nationalized health care plan!
You mean that which Canada, England, and the rest of the Commonwealth has handled?
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

Iceberg wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Iceberg wrote:"Socialized medicine" is a conservative codeword for the national healthcare plans that are in use in every industrialized country in the world EXCEPT the United States of America.
Err...we already have this. It's law that you cannot be refused immediate
life saving treatments on basis of your income.
That's not a health care plan, that's "You can't leave people dying on the streets because they can't pay for emergency care." We do not have a national health care plan.
no it's called motivation. you get the minimum to keep you alive. if you want it better, then get off your ass and better yourself.
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Post by Stravo »

The health care situation is reaching crisis proportions. I spent several years without any health coverage whatsoever and I lived in dread of what would happen if I got really sick. Thankfully now my child and I have health coverage through my job...but considering the economy what happens if I lose it?

HOWEVER I do NOT agree with a government controlled system. There need to be some sort of shakeup, regulation of health care costs perhaps, but when has it ever been a good idea to add governmental beaurcracy to ANYTHING let alone my health.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Stravo wrote:The health care situation is reaching crisis proportions.
A lot of it is because of trial laywers and litgation costs that get lumped
back into doctor's fees. In some states, doctors are fleeing enmasse
to other states with less litgious climates, reducing the number of doctors
for the population and hence driving up costs
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Post by Iceberg »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Iceberg wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Err...we already have this. It's law that you cannot be refused immediate
life saving treatments on basis of your income.
That's not a health care plan, that's "You can't leave people dying on the streets because they can't pay for emergency care." We do not have a national health care plan.
no it's called motivation. you get the minimum to keep you alive. if you want it better, then get off your ass and better yourself.
FUCK YOU! I've been unemployed for two months because the economy SUCKS, not because I've been too lazy to get a job! I haven't been sitting on my ass sucking Fritos into my face all day, I've been going to school and doing stuff at the dojo and looking for a goddamn job and going to karate, and guess what - because I don't have a job, I'm NOT ELIGABLE FOR HEALTH INSURANCE, because insurers don't take the unemployed. I'm deathly afraid of getting sick, because without health insurance, I'm fucked.

If you think people are unemployed because they're too lazy to work, THINK AGAIN! Unemployment is the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person, especially when you're young and starting out, and it's NOT a state to seek, or to voluntarily stay in for very long. This kind of condescension is stupid and arrogant.
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Post by SirNitram »

Stravo wrote:The health care situation is reaching crisis proportions. I spent several years without any health coverage whatsoever and I lived in dread of what would happen if I got really sick. Thankfully now my child and I have health coverage through my job...but considering the economy what happens if I lose it?

HOWEVER I do NOT agree with a government controlled system. There need to be some sort of shakeup, regulation of health care costs perhaps, but when has it ever been a good idea to add governmental beaurcracy to ANYTHING let alone my health.
I must ask, why? This really makes no sense to me, the whole attitude that the government picking up the slack in a 'safety net' health care system is somehow evil. Assuming someone finally just shoots the fucking lawyers to drop healthcare costs, it shouldn't cost much more than current taxes relating to Medicare/Medicaid. Please do explain, Stravo, I'm curious.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Iceberg wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Err...we already have this. It's law that you cannot be refused immediate
life saving treatments on basis of your income.
That's not a health care plan, that's "You can't leave people dying on the streets because they can't pay for emergency care." We do not have a national health care plan.
no it's called motivation. you get the minimum to keep you alive. if you want it better, then get off your ass and better yourself.
You realize that that doesnt work right? Sometimes people are trapped by circumstances beyond their control. Last year, my mom lost her job when the business she worked for went under. And because the job market was shit(accounting) she was out of work for 2 fucking months.

We werent insured, we almost lost everything we owned. Had one of us gotten injured we would have been fucked.
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Post by MKSheppard »

SirNitram wrote: I must ask, why? This really makes no sense to me, the whole attitude that the government picking up the slack in a 'safety net' health care system is somehow evil. Assuming someone finally just shoots the fucking lawyers to drop healthcare costs, it shouldn't cost much more than current taxes relating to Medicare/Medicaid. Please do explain, Stravo, I'm curious.
If you've ever worked as Human Relations for any company, you
should know that new hires are a bitch nowadays with all the paperwork
you have to do for medicare deductions, social security deductions,
income tax deductions etc
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote: I must ask, why? This really makes no sense to me, the whole attitude that the government picking up the slack in a 'safety net' health care system is somehow evil. Assuming someone finally just shoots the fucking lawyers to drop healthcare costs, it shouldn't cost much more than current taxes relating to Medicare/Medicaid. Please do explain, Stravo, I'm curious.
If you've ever worked as Human Relations for any company, you
should know that new hires are a bitch nowadays with all the paperwork
you have to do for medicare deductions, social security deductions,
income tax deductions etc
That's solved by adopting a 'Shoot beauracrats on sight' amendment.
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FUCK YOU! I've been unemployed for two months because the economy SUCKS, not because I've been too lazy to get a job! I haven't been sitting on my ass sucking Fritos into my face all day, I've been going to school and doing stuff at the dojo and looking for a goddamn job and going to karate, and guess what - because I don't have a job, I'm NOT ELIGABLE FOR HEALTH INSURANCE, because insurers don't take the unemployed. I'm deathly afraid of getting sick, because without health insurance, I'm fucked.

If you think people are unemployed because they're too lazy to work, THINK AGAIN! Unemployment is the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person, especially when you're young and starting out, and it's NOT a state to seek, or to voluntarily stay in for very long. This kind of condescension is stupid and arrogant.[/quote]

i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills. And god forbid you miss a fucking karate class. :roll: Tell you what, what city do you live in. i bet i can find you a job, it may be shitty, but it will do for a while you whiney litte cunt.
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Post by LadyTevar »

MKSheppard wrote:
Stravo wrote:The health care situation is reaching crisis proportions.
A lot of it is because of trial laywers and litgation costs that get lumped
back into doctor's fees. In some states, doctors are fleeing enmasse
to other states with less litgious climates, reducing the number of doctors
for the population and hence driving up costs
Welcome to West Virginia... where the State Government has been forced to become the source of Medical Malpractice Insurance, because the doctors couldn't afford private insurance. In two years we lost 1/3 of the practicing specialists and general practictioners in the state....

And it's not the lawyers, per se... the problem is the Insurance Companies themselves.
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Post by SirNitram »

Col. Crackpot wrote:i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills. And god forbid you miss a fucking karate class. :roll: Tell you what, what city do you live in. i bet i can find you a job, it may be shitty, but it will do for a while you whiney litte cunt.
I love how those full of shit think you can just find a job with health care coverage by walking down the street. I work for the fucking CDC and I don't get health coverage, because there's no full time jobs around here.
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Post by Iceberg »

Col. Crackpot wrote:i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.
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Post by Iceberg »

SirNitram wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills. And god forbid you miss a fucking karate class. :roll: Tell you what, what city do you live in. i bet i can find you a job, it may be shitty, but it will do for a while you whiney litte cunt.
I love how those full of shit think you can just find a job with health care coverage by walking down the street. I work for the fucking CDC and I don't get health coverage, because there's no full time jobs around here.
Tis truly a sad statement about our government.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Col. Crackpot wrote:FUCK YOU! I've been unemployed for two months because the economy SUCKS, not because I've been too lazy to get a job! I haven't been sitting on my ass sucking Fritos into my face all day, I've been going to school and doing stuff at the dojo and looking for a goddamn job and going to karate, and guess what - because I don't have a job, I'm NOT ELIGABLE FOR HEALTH INSURANCE, because insurers don't take the unemployed. I'm deathly afraid of getting sick, because without health insurance, I'm fucked.

If you think people are unemployed because they're too lazy to work, THINK AGAIN! Unemployment is the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person, especially when you're young and starting out, and it's NOT a state to seek, or to voluntarily stay in for very long. This kind of condescension is stupid and arrogant.
i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills. And god forbid you miss a fucking karate class. :roll: Tell you what, what city do you live in. i bet i can find you a job, it may be shitty, but it will do for a while you whiney litte cunt.[/quote]

Shit jobs generally dont pay the bills asshat. Even with a shit job, after food and utilities and MAYBE a house payment... he cant afford anything.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

Iceberg wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.
here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.
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Post by LadyTevar »

Oh, there is one good thing about West Viriginia... we have a system of Free Clinics spread across the state especially to deal with the uninsured. Up until I got on with the State and covered by PEIA, this system was my only source of medical care. Doctors and Nurse Practitioners volunteer their time to man these clinics. The clinic asks a donation of $1-$5 whenever you get a perscription, to help cover some of the costs. Otherwise, it's pay if you can.
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Post by SirNitram »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Iceberg wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.
here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.
*ROTFL*

Yea, 20 bucks won't pay for the costs of a few stitches, Col. Fuckup. One has to have a full time job with benefits to get health care, you fucking moron.
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Post by Stravo »

SirNitram wrote:
Stravo wrote:The health care situation is reaching crisis proportions. I spent several years without any health coverage whatsoever and I lived in dread of what would happen if I got really sick. Thankfully now my child and I have health coverage through my job...but considering the economy what happens if I lose it?

HOWEVER I do NOT agree with a government controlled system. There need to be some sort of shakeup, regulation of health care costs perhaps, but when has it ever been a good idea to add governmental beaurcracy to ANYTHING let alone my health.
I must ask, why? This really makes no sense to me, the whole attitude that the government picking up the slack in a 'safety net' health care system is somehow evil. Assuming someone finally just shoots the fucking lawyers to drop healthcare costs, it shouldn't cost much more than current taxes relating to Medicare/Medicaid. Please do explain, Stravo, I'm curious.
I agree with the safety net but not the actual system itself. My father is currently going through retirement and getting his health care options lined up. He has a serious heart condition and so it is VERY important to him that he have the right coverage particualrly prescription drugs (BIG issue for the retirees and should be for the rest of us as well, costs are going way up. I used to pay $5 for a generic drug, $10 for a brand name. NOW I pay $10 for generic, $15 for brand name, doubled in 1 year! Watch this election, it is going to come up) The amount of paper work and hassles he's gone through just to get his medicaid and medicare benefits is ludicrous, he needs a lawyer to read some of the fine print to fully understand what the consequences of his choices are.

Anyone who sees how government runs things (DMV, Unemplyment benefits, etc) on average has a horrible experience. I know friends who didn't get their unemplyment checks for nearly a month due to beauracrtic snafus. I guess Nitram what many of us are deathly afraid of is the bullshit we will have to put up with if the government ran the system. I shudder what to think will happen to the prescriptions the government will need to keep track of and consequences when it inevitably loses a prescription history as NY state lost my license one year.

Civil Servants do not have the incentive that private companies do to do a good and thorough job. Been to the Post Office lately? Think of intead of a fragile handle with care package it's your daughter you're bringing in to be looked at. NYC and state has some of the WORST civil servants in this nation and I would NOT want that translated into my health care system.

Oh and for the conspiracy nuts out there, the governemtn will have your medical records, any thoughts?

No thank you. The HMO's aren't working too well, but I'll take them over Shaniqua and her three inch long nails chewing gum and gabbing in the phone as a line begins to form at her window.
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Post by SirNitram »

Ah, so it all spawns from the US Governments basic ability to fuck up everything and anything by excessive recordkeeping and fumbling those records? That makes more sense than most explanations. Thanks, Stravo. I still don't agree, but at least I now understand.
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Post by Iceberg »

Stravo wrote:No thank you. The HMO's aren't working too well, but I'll take them over Shaniqua and her three inch long nails chewing gum and gabbing in the phone as a line begins to form at her window.
The HMOs got a big multibillion dollar lawsuit in Minnesota about ten years ago for precisely that kind of behavior. Try again?
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Post by MKSheppard »

Stravo wrote: No thank you. The HMO's aren't working too well, but I'll take them over Shaniqua and her three inch long nails chewing gum and gabbing in the phone as a line begins to form at her window.
You......You......RACIST!!!

I'm going to report you to Wong.......

Hahhaha no.... :lol: :lol:
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Post by Stravo »

Iceberg wrote:
Stravo wrote:No thank you. The HMO's aren't working too well, but I'll take them over Shaniqua and her three inch long nails chewing gum and gabbing in the phone as a line begins to form at her window.
The HMOs got a big multibillion dollar lawsuit in Minnesota about ten years ago for precisely that kind of behavior. Try again?
REALLY? You mean Shaniqua was at her window doing her nails and talking to her freind while someone with a broken leg waited for her to attend to him? Wow I had no clue.
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