Centrist Democrats fear party losing middle class

[SirNitram]

Well, my limited experience with PEIA has shown it's not the bloated, sluggish monster that Medicare is, so maybe the government can take a hint from a system that worked(Then again, these are politicians).

[Alyrium Denryle]

i don't fucking buy that. if you really wanted to work you would temporarily settle for a shit job to pay the bills.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.

here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.

And that will pay for anything in this country... how? Now lets run some calcs... 40 hours a week at my states min wage... 5.65 per hour 52 weeks per year... 11,752 dollars before taxes. Now assume a 500 dollar per month rent.. 5,752 dollars... then food... maybe what... 30 bucks a week for decent nutrition(he COULD I suppose eat ramen with a multivitamin ) 4,192 dollars.

Then the utilities... 100 dollar electric perhaps... water.. 100 perhaps(my family of 4 usually has a bill of 200-300 per month for electric, and we use it sparingly)

1,792 dollars. Then there is a car... must be insured... if he has a shit car... negligible... Insurance so he can legally drive... maybe... 60 a month...
1,072 dollars... thn there is taxes, other utilities(heating/cooling) gas money... ahh gas maoney... 30 bucks a week maybe?

Oh... and he is 488 dollars in dept WITHOUT taxation, and BEFORE he even tries to get health coverage. And that doesnt include tuition...

[LadyTevar]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.

here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.

*ROTFL*

Yea, 20 bucks won't pay for the costs of a few stitches, Col. Fuckup. One has to have a full time job with benefits to get health care, you fucking moron.

9/10ths of West Virginia's jobs are minimium wage, no insurance, under 30 hour/week jobs.

If it tells you anything, the downtown McDonald's closed 7 years back, and the BurgerKing just closed down last week.

[Col. Crackpot]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When I was looking for a job in May-June, I was explicitly told everywhere I looked that they wouldn't be hiring until August. Shut the hell up, cumstain.

here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.

And that will pay for anything in this country... how? Now lets run some calcs... 40 hours a week at my states min wage... 5.65 per hour 52 weeks per year... 11,752 dollars before taxes. Now assume a 500 dollar per month rent.. 5,752 dollars... then food... maybe what... 30 bucks a week for decent nutrition(he COULD I suppose eat ramen with a multivitamin ) 4,192 dollars.

Then the utilities... 100 dollar electric perhaps... water.. 100 perhaps(my family of 4 usually has a bill of 200-300 per month for electric, and we use it sparingly)

1,792 dollars. Then there is a car... must be insured... if he has a shit car... negligible... Insurance so he can legally drive... maybe... 60 a month...
1,072 dollars... thn there is taxes, other utilities(heating/cooling) gas money... ahh gas maoney... 30 bucks a week maybe?

Oh... and he is 488 dollars in dept WITHOUT taxation, and BEFORE he even tries to get health coverage. And that doesnt include tuition...

then how is it immigrants come into this country every year not speaking a lick of english but somehow manage to work two jobs and put either themselves of their children through college? It takes work. hard work. fucking miserable work. hell it might even take a generation or too. but therein lies the problem. people want shit right away. why work and earn my place in society when i can bitch and moan and protest and then vote for the guy who will just hand it to me!

[SirNitram]

I love how Crackpot is trying to change this from 'It's bloody near impossible to get a job with health care in this job market' to 'Everyone wants everything right away'. Is this normal for this forum?

[Xenophobe3691]

then how is it immigrants come into this country every year not speaking a lick of english but somehow manage to work two jobs and put either themselves of their children through college? It takes work. hard work. fucking miserable work. hell it might even take a generation or too. but therein lies the problem. people want shit right away. why work and earn my place in society when i can bitch and moan and protest and then vote for the guy who will just hand it to me!

Um....yeah. I can see you haven't really met any of these immigrants, either. I was friends with one, and I can tell you that it's hard as hell to pull it off. It's not even half as common as you seem to crow it is, and paying for college (Even state colleges) is hell impossible for these families without lots of loans and grants.

And I'd like to see you rise from a one bedroom apartment in the middle of NYC to making as much as these "fat cats" do. When you've done so, THEN you can bitch about how these people don't want to make money.

[Col. Crackpot]

then how is it immigrants come into this country every year not speaking a lick of english but somehow manage to work two jobs and put either themselves of their children through college? It takes work. hard work. fucking miserable work. hell it might even take a generation or too. but therein lies the problem. people want shit right away. why work and earn my place in society when i can bitch and moan and protest and then vote for the guy who will just hand it to me!

Um....yeah. I can see you haven't really met any of these immigrants, either. I was friends with one, and I can tell you that it's hard as hell to pull it off. It's not even half as common as you seem to crow it is, and paying for college (Even state colleges) is hell impossible for these families without lots of loans and grants.

And I'd like to see you rise from a one bedroom apartment in the middle of NYC to making as much as these "fat cats" do. When you've done so, THEN you can bitch about how these people don't want to make money.

hey asshole, i come from the piss poor immigrtant family. My mothers parents were farmers from Scart, Killkenny, Ireland. My father's were the children of an immigrant irish cop living in a third floor apartment in a tennament house in South Providence. I had SHIT when i was a kid. Everyone in my family sacrificed for the future generation. no one pissed and moaned about not having anything. My mother's father worked 40 years on the Metro-North Railroad in New York City and spent his free time cutting lawns. My father's father worked as a toolmaker and went on to start his own buisiness with my father 8 years ago. Everything i have i was forced to earn. i pay for my own college bills and work for what i earn. so look! it does happen and i'm a living example of it. so fuck off.

[SirNitram]

And he continues to dodge the point... Hey jackass, you gonna back up a single thing beyond 'I had to work for it!' tirades? You're not the only immigrant here, jackass.

[Alyrium Denryle]

here's $20 go wash my car. or cut some fucking lawns. or is that beneath you? i have seen many like you, bitch about not finding a job, but you really. you just sit and wait for that perfect job in your field and turn your nose up at anything else. lets face it, if you were really that hard up you wouldn't be spending money on karate lessons. get your priorities straight, or at the very least don't, but don't while like a 12 year old to me about a situation that is partially your own fault.

And that will pay for anything in this country... how? Now lets run some calcs... 40 hours a week at my states min wage... 5.65 per hour 52 weeks per year... 11,752 dollars before taxes. Now assume a 500 dollar per month rent.. 5,752 dollars... then food... maybe what... 30 bucks a week for decent nutrition(he COULD I suppose eat ramen with a multivitamin ) 4,192 dollars.

Then the utilities... 100 dollar electric perhaps... water.. 100 perhaps(my family of 4 usually has a bill of 200-300 per month for electric, and we use it sparingly)

1,792 dollars. Then there is a car... must be insured... if he has a shit car... negligible... Insurance so he can legally drive... maybe... 60 a month...
1,072 dollars... thn there is taxes, other utilities(heating/cooling) gas money... ahh gas maoney... 30 bucks a week maybe?

Oh... and he is 488 dollars in dept WITHOUT taxation, and BEFORE he even tries to get health coverage. And that doesnt include tuition...

then how is it immigrants come into this country every year not speaking a lick of english but somehow manage to work two jobs and put either themselves of their children through college? It takes work. hard work. fucking miserable work. hell it might even take a generation or too. but therein lies the problem. people want shit right away. why work and earn my place in society when i can bitch and moan and protest and then vote for the guy who will just hand it to me!

Regardless of your family history crackpot http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/redherring.gif

My clc on tha ability for a college student to find a job with healthcare and STILL afford to pay for food, have nothing to do with poor immigrant families.

Don't post pictures that force re-formatting ~ Stormbringer

[Xenophobe3691]

hey asshole, i come from the piss poor immigrtant family. My mothers parents were farmers from Scart, Killkenny, Ireland. My father's were the children of an immigrant irish cop living in a third floor apartment in a tennament house in South Providence. I had SHIT when i was a kid. Everyone in my family sacrificed for the future generation. no one pissed and moaned about not having anything. My mother's father worked 40 years on the Metro-North Railroad in New York City and spent his free time cutting lawns. My father's father worked as a toolmaker and went on to start his own buisiness with my father 8 years ago. Everything i have i was forced to earn. i pay for my own college bills and work for what i earn. so look! it does happen and i'm a living example of it. so fuck off.

Fucktard, my mom's an immigrant from the Dominican Republic, and my dad's the grandson of Turkish and Polish immigrants who also came to this country with just the shirts off of their backs. When my parents got married, the most expensive thing at the wedding was their cake, which happened to be 35 bucks. My father paid his own way through college thanks to the Regent Scholarship, went to the Dominican Republic to go to Medical school, since he couldn't afford any of the expensive fancy ones here. He now works 80 HOURS A FUCKING WEEK in the hospital, of which a shitload goes to taxes. My mom went to law school WHILE helping to raise me and my siblings, and now works as a career consultant at Nova Southeastern University.

And before you call me a rich spoiled kid, I EARNED my own 100% Bright Futures scholarship to the State School I'm going to, my parents never bought me a car, never got me any of the shit that rich little boys claim to get.

And you still haven't answered about getting a decent job that can even pay the bills in this country.

[Gil Hamilton]

then how is it immigrants come into this country every year not speaking a lick of english but somehow manage to work two jobs and put either themselves of their children through college? It takes work. hard work. fucking miserable work. hell it might even take a generation or too. but therein lies the problem. people want shit right away. why work and earn my place in society when i can bitch and moan and protest and then vote for the guy who will just hand it to me!

Can I ask you a personal question, if you don't mind? What do you do for a living? This is relevant because I need to know where you are coming from before I respond to your comment here in entirely.

Secondly, immigrants generally don't come to this country without speaking some English, penniless, and yet still can work two jobs and go to college at the same time. They work those two jobs to be able to afford a rat hole apartment and pay for food, not go to college. Generally, immigrants come with a bit of money that they'd been saving for the trip and know a bit of English before they came. Also, do you honestly think that they are paying the full price of admission to college? I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but a foriegn national can get significant scholarships and grants to study in America if they fill out their forms right. I knew an eastern European kid named Alex when I went to the Art Institute that was practically being paid to go there for photography because of this.

[Iceberg]

No thank you. The HMO's aren't working too well, but I'll take them over Shaniqua and her three inch long nails chewing gum and gabbing in the phone as a line begins to form at her window.

The HMOs got a big multibillion dollar lawsuit in Minnesota about ten years ago for precisely that kind of behavior. Try again?

REALLY? You mean Shaniqua was at her window doing her nails and talking to her freind while someone with a broken leg waited for her to attend to him? Wow I had no clue.

Worse. It didn't matter what you had or how urgently you required treatment, you went to an HMO doctor, according to HMO treatment schedules, and if you went to another doctor, or cut ahead of your corporate-allotted place in line, they dropped your coverage and stuck the full cost of your treatment on your shoulders. The HMO business used to be absofuckinglutely heartless, and it took several VERY important lawsuits and much legislation to change that.

[RedImperator]

My plan for cutting perscription drug costs: Allow phamaceutical companies to subsidize the costs of researching, manufacturing, and marketing perscriptions by selling, legally, anti-depressants, tranquilizers, and whatnot for recreational use. While you're at it, legalize narcotics and let the pharm companies make a profit selling them, too.

I'm not kidding.

[Xenophobe3691]

My plan for cutting perscription drug costs: Allow phamaceutical companies to subsidize the costs of researching, manufacturing, and marketing perscriptions by selling, legally, anti-depressants, tranquilizers, and whatnot for recreational use. While you're at it, legalize narcotics and let the pharm companies make a profit selling them, too.

I'm not kidding.

I doubt even these would cover the hideous costs of drug research. Have you ever seen how much a successful one costs?!?

[Stravo]

I'm sure Viagra has paid for itself at this point.

[RedImperator]

My plan for cutting perscription drug costs: Allow phamaceutical companies to subsidize the costs of researching, manufacturing, and marketing perscriptions by selling, legally, anti-depressants, tranquilizers, and whatnot for recreational use. While you're at it, legalize narcotics and let the pharm companies make a profit selling them, too.

I'm not kidding.

I doubt even these would cover the hideous costs of drug research. Have you ever seen how much a successful one costs?!?

The highest figure I've seen is $800 million dollars. But I think you're underestimating the recreational drug market.

[Xenophobe3691]

The highest figure I've seen is $800 million dollars. But I think you're underestimating the recreational drug market.

Aren't the statistics something along the liones of 9 out of 10 drugs don't make it to the market?

[RedImperator]

The highest figure I've seen is $800 million dollars. But I think you're underestimating the recreational drug market.

Aren't the statistics something along the liones of 9 out of 10 drugs don't make it to the market?

Something like that, but IIRC, those statistics count all potential new drugs, including the ones that are abandoned early in the process, before nine-digit sums are spent on them. THe really high figures are for the ones that make it through every stage of the process.

[Worlds Spanner]

I don't believe anybody from the opposition party who tells me who they want me to vote for. That's the most pathetically transparent trick ever devised, Bre'r Rabbit.

Ha, seeing as the Democrats did that in California, with Bill Simon, they
managed to manipulate the Republicans into giving them Gray Davis Lite
who got defeated soundly.

And the Republicans are trying to do it now and guess what, the damn Democractic leadership is HELPING them.

Democrats are NOT 'tough' on security. No one will believe a Democrat who runs on a platform that is in line with the status quo. Why? Because they'll look like Bush lite and they'll LOSE HARD, just like you said.

We need someone who is making a clear break with current policy, and Dean is the only serious candidate who does that.

Moreover, he is not a pure leftist. There was a list of issues he was way left on earlier, but two critical issues that he's not at all 'liberal' on are gun control and financial responsibility. Those issues will give him a good bit of centrist appeal when it comes to the general election.

The DLC are just scared that they're being cut out of the loop this time, and they're playing into the hands of the Republicans.

Nobody should listen to their whining.

[Iceberg]

Some much needed humor, courtesy of a comment in the Deanblog (posted by "Med Students for Dean"):

George Bush Criticizes Dean Campaign for Exaggerating Evidence of "Secret Plan" to Justify Campaign Contributions

April 29, 2003

Responding to criticism that he exaggerated evidence of weapons of mass destruction to justify the war in Iraq, George Bush today criticized the Dean campaign for claiming to have a "secret plan" during a recent Internet fundraising blitz in which avid readers of the Dean blog contributed over half a million dollars.

Leaks attributed to campaign director Joe Trippi suggested that Dean scientists had developed an aerosolized anti-hallucinogenic drug, which was to be sprayed over large sections of the south and west from a giant blimp in the hope of convincing voters that a $450 billion deficit is a bad thing and health care is a good thing. However, a committee of leading bloggers sent to Dean campaign headquarters to search for the secret plan found only a half eaten turkey sandwich.

"Aw, come on," said Mr. Bush, "tell me the plan … oh I know, there was no plan! Well then I don't care any more," as he turned away crossing his arms defiantly. Seconds later he turned back and asked plaintively, "So what was the plan? I must have clicked on that bat a hundred times or maybe two hundred. I was going to make a contribution but then Net Nanny came on and when I called Dick Cheney to turn it off he reminded me that Howard Dean is running against us. Dick Cheney remembers everything, I bet that's why he's President! Howard Dean almost tricked me! Was that the plan? That was it, wasn't it? Aw come on, tell me the plan …"

Despite lack of evidence and Mr. Bush's skeptical remarks, regular readers of Dean's blog expressed confidence that there was a secret plan and that it will eventually be found under Internet guru Matt Gross' mattress, or perhaps in co-guru Zephyr Teachout's sock drawer. Inspectors have also sought to interview a mysterious figure who goes only by the name of "Nicco" in connection with the missing plan, but his whereabouts are currently unknown.

[Alyrium Denryle]

LMAO!!!!!

[SirNitram]

In other news, Sheppard has locked himself in the local Armoury and cannot escape. Film at eleven.

[Coyote]

So what is Dean's supposed 'moderate' gun control stance? How about his stance on the Space Program? Extending the military on Globocop missions?

[Iceberg]

So what is Dean's supposed 'moderate' gun control stance? How about his stance on the Space Program? Extending the military on Globocop missions?

Gun policy: The Federal government should enforce but not expand current gun laws and further gun legislation should be left to the individual states.

Dr. Dean's gun policy plank

Space Program: He doesn't have anything about the space program up on his website yet. Perhaps somebody should suggest that he start forming a space policy now, before it comes up in a debate.

National/World security and Foreign Policy:

"Our foreign and military policy must be about the notion of America leading the world, not America against the world."

A New Direction for American Foreign Policy

[Worlds Spanner]

Thanks for the links.