Assault Weapon Discussion Split from Middle class thread
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Wow, what the fuck happened here?
DON'T YOU KNOW THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE
A GUN DISCUSSION WITHOUT SHEPPARD?
That said....
There are 10~ legal Semi Automatic G-36s floating around Canada for
about $5k each, due to a fuckup by HK...stupid fucking krauts, won't
even sell a semi auto version of their new weapon to the public, despite
the possibility of huuuuge profit margins from the black rifle crowd...
Anyway, they're legal in Canada, but not America, because of George
HW Bush who signed and Executive Order in the 1990s banning importation
of foreign made "assault rifles", meaning that the only way we could
legally own the "evil guns" is if they were made in America....Kiss
goodbye to the days of HK91s and say hellow to the monstrosity
known as the HK SL8.
DON'T YOU KNOW THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE
A GUN DISCUSSION WITHOUT SHEPPARD?
That said....
There are 10~ legal Semi Automatic G-36s floating around Canada for
about $5k each, due to a fuckup by HK...stupid fucking krauts, won't
even sell a semi auto version of their new weapon to the public, despite
the possibility of huuuuge profit margins from the black rifle crowd...
Anyway, they're legal in Canada, but not America, because of George
HW Bush who signed and Executive Order in the 1990s banning importation
of foreign made "assault rifles", meaning that the only way we could
legally own the "evil guns" is if they were made in America....Kiss
goodbye to the days of HK91s and say hellow to the monstrosity
known as the HK SL8.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
At the risk of derailing a perfectly good fight over guns, I must ask the practical question: Is there, realistically, a politician who will drop the Assault Weapons Ban and get into office? To my knowledge, both the parties aren't proposing to do that, and I can understand why(So-called soccer mom's are a part of the voting). Please, do correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just wondering if all this is hot air, and which party is really putting forth the 'best' gun control policy.(Personally, I favor Dean's for the simple fact it's giving authority back to the states, ultimately the most logical thing to do in this situation.)
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Nit, the Assault Weapons ban automatically dies in 2004.SirNitram wrote:At the risk of derailing a perfectly good fight over guns, I must ask the practical question: Is there, realistically, a politician who will drop the Assault Weapons Ban and get into office?
The Usual Suspects (the Democraps) are frantically putting together
AWB renewal bills that would extend the time period to indefinite, and
expand the number of weapons that are banned.
But if they can't pass them thru the house AND senate, well, the ban
dies next year and we can own rifles with bayonet lugs and begin
the drive by bayonetings!
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
I don't get into these debates for the plain and simple reason that I don't see anyone needing to have any kind of assualt weapon. Shotguns and pistols are fine, but you really need that AK-47 or whatever the hell automatic weapon is out there. "Look a deer!" Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. "Its hamburger now, quick Cletus brings me a new clip." "Yeehaw!"
Seriously if the gun lobby would just be honest and say we want our cool looking guns to shoot then maybe I'd have a little more sympathy for them. I'm not advocating no guns, thats unrealistic and unAmerican, but c'mon, automatic weapons have no need to be in the hands of citizens.
Seriously if the gun lobby would just be honest and say we want our cool looking guns to shoot then maybe I'd have a little more sympathy for them. I'm not advocating no guns, thats unrealistic and unAmerican, but c'mon, automatic weapons have no need to be in the hands of citizens.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Let me clear up a few fallacies here:
Worlds Spanner:
There are incomplete (usually missing the bolt carrier and autosear) parts sets being sold because many parts are interchangeable between semiauto and full auto models.
Any semiauto weapon can be converted to full auto by a qualified machinist. Some are just harder to do. One easy (for a machinist) popular pre-86 (legal) conversion was to the Ruger 10/22 rifle, which is hardly a military arm. Do you want to ban .22 rifles as well?
BTW, a Colt AR is one of the hardest rifles to convert to full auto because not only does the bolt carrier have the full auto trip cut out, there's a block of solid metal in the spot where the autosear would go on the military version. The parts simply won't fit in place without a machinist spending several hours hogging out the channel and then drilling the mounting holes.
Even after that's done, you still need the parts set and a bolt carrier from a full auto version.
This isn't something Bubba can do at his kitchen table with a dremel.
Besides, possession of a non-NFA registered machinegun is worth 10 years in prison and has been since 1934.
As far as the 'high speed firing mechanism' bit goes, that's a trait shared by all semiauto rifles, including my Grandfather's Remington Model 4 and the abovementioned Ruger 10/22. It's disingenuous to claim that a semiautomatic action is a feature of an 'assault rifle' when all semiauto rifles possess it.
So-called 'high capacity magazines' (I prefer to call them 'full capacity magazines') aren't an issue in 99.9%+ of all criminal misuse of firearms.
The DC sniper case is an excellent example. They used a Bushmaster semiauto 'black rifle', but they might just as well used a single shot because they never fired more than one or two shots, much less all 30 rounds from the rifle.
And even in the few cases where they may be an issue, how long does it take to change a magazine on a firearm that uses detachable box magazines?
Not very long.
Worlds Spanner:
Complete full auto parts sets are legally sold as replacement parts for those who legally own the full auto NFA registered guns. To purchase them, you must send the dealer a copy of your NFA tax stamp paperwork.First, these are not just jazzed up civilian rifles. They are "civilianized" or stripped down military weapons. The basic firing mechanism is the same, it just has the fully automatic mode disabled. This means that it is possible to UNcivilianize them, and such kits can be legally sold.
There are incomplete (usually missing the bolt carrier and autosear) parts sets being sold because many parts are interchangeable between semiauto and full auto models.
Any semiauto weapon can be converted to full auto by a qualified machinist. Some are just harder to do. One easy (for a machinist) popular pre-86 (legal) conversion was to the Ruger 10/22 rifle, which is hardly a military arm. Do you want to ban .22 rifles as well?
BTW, a Colt AR is one of the hardest rifles to convert to full auto because not only does the bolt carrier have the full auto trip cut out, there's a block of solid metal in the spot where the autosear would go on the military version. The parts simply won't fit in place without a machinist spending several hours hogging out the channel and then drilling the mounting holes.
Even after that's done, you still need the parts set and a bolt carrier from a full auto version.
This isn't something Bubba can do at his kitchen table with a dremel.
Besides, possession of a non-NFA registered machinegun is worth 10 years in prison and has been since 1934.
Edi addressed the pistol grip fallacy.Second, assault rifles do in fact have a dedicated purpose: mass murder. There are three basic companants that all assault rifles share. First, the high speed firing mechansim (it may only be semi-authomatic but it can fire as fast as you can depress the trigger which is pretty damn fast). Second, a high capacity magazine. These are illegal under the current ban, but old magazines have been grandfathered in and are legally being sold on new weapons. Finally, a pistol grip. This allows you to hold the weapon at your waist and spray fire, as you see in the movies. If you use it hunting, your deer or whatever will end up in pieces. If you use it for home defense, you'll really fuck up your bedroom. But if you use it for crime, you can mow down many people very fast, including cops with body armour and their little pistols.
As far as the 'high speed firing mechanism' bit goes, that's a trait shared by all semiauto rifles, including my Grandfather's Remington Model 4 and the abovementioned Ruger 10/22. It's disingenuous to claim that a semiautomatic action is a feature of an 'assault rifle' when all semiauto rifles possess it.
So-called 'high capacity magazines' (I prefer to call them 'full capacity magazines') aren't an issue in 99.9%+ of all criminal misuse of firearms.
The DC sniper case is an excellent example. They used a Bushmaster semiauto 'black rifle', but they might just as well used a single shot because they never fired more than one or two shots, much less all 30 rounds from the rifle.
And even in the few cases where they may be an issue, how long does it take to change a magazine on a firearm that uses detachable box magazines?
Not very long.
Incorrect. The weapon was stolen from a gunshop in Washington state (Bulls-Eye Shooters Supply, IIRC). Bushmaster had nothing to do with the theft of the rifle.E.G. When the Bushmaster used by the DC snipers was stolen from the factory by an employee, Bushmaaster just shrugged and wrote it off, never investigated or anything. And that rifle sells for over a thousand dollars. Fucking criminal.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
Well, then, I will modify my question: Are a sufficient majority of the House and Senate looking like they'll drop it? While logical arguments can be made to drop it, this is politics... And Politics is about lying, cheating, stealing, and playing with names. And let's face it, 'Assault Weapons' is a name that won't earn you points from several voting blocks.MKSheppard wrote:Nit, the Assault Weapons ban automatically dies in 2004.SirNitram wrote:At the risk of derailing a perfectly good fight over guns, I must ask the practical question: Is there, realistically, a politician who will drop the Assault Weapons Ban and get into office?
The Usual Suspects (the Democraps) are frantically putting together
AWB renewal bills that would extend the time period to indefinite, and
expand the number of weapons that are banned.
But if they can't pass them thru the house AND senate, well, the ban
dies next year and we can own rifles with bayonet lugs and begin
the drive by bayonetings!
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Stravo wrote:I don't get into these debates for the plain and simple reason that I don't see anyone needing to have any kind of assualt weapon. Shotguns and pistols are fine, but you really need that AK-47 or whatever the hell automatic weapon is out there. "Look a deer!" Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. "Its hamburger now, quick Cletus brings me a new clip." "Yeehaw!"
*straps Stravo to Grandma's 1979 Chevy Caprice and peels off leaving
a trail of blood and entrails behind*
I do that for stupid fucks who say stupid things.
Civilians cannot buy Machine Guns made after 1985, you fucking dumbshit, and these "assault rifles" are Semi-automatic only, and
they have been designed SPECIFICALLY by the manufacturers so
that you cannot put M-16, etc parts into them to turn them into Full
Auto, and EVERY weapon has to be SUBMITTED TO THE ATF TO
BE TESTED TO SEE IF IT IS EASILY CONVERTED TO FULL AUTO.
If it's TOO easy, it goes back to the manufacturer, with a note saying:
"Make it harder".
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
The original AWB passed by a single vote in a Democratically controlledSirNitram wrote: Well, then, I will modify my question: Are a sufficient majority of the House and Senate looking like they'll drop it? While logical arguments can be made to drop it, this is politics... And Politics is about lying, cheating, stealing, and playing with names. And let's face it, 'Assault Weapons' is a name that won't earn you points from several voting blocks.
congress..in a republican controlled congress, about as likely as a snowball
in hell lasting for more than 30 secs
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Thanks.MKSheppard wrote: Civilians cannot buy Machine Guns made after 1985, you fucking dumbshit, and these "assault rifles" are Semi-automatic only, and
they have been designed SPECIFICALLY by the manufacturers so
that you cannot put M-16, etc parts into them to turn them into Full
Auto, and EVERY weapon has to be SUBMITTED TO THE ATF TO
BE TESTED TO SEE IF IT IS EASILY CONVERTED TO FULL AUTO.
If it's TOO easy, it goes back to the manufacturer, with a note saying:
"Make it harder".
I forgot to include this bit of information in my previous post.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
I see. I still find it unlikely anyone's going to make legalizing 'assault weapons' part of their public campaign, but.MKSheppard wrote:The original AWB passed by a single vote in a Democratically controlledSirNitram wrote: Well, then, I will modify my question: Are a sufficient majority of the House and Senate looking like they'll drop it? While logical arguments can be made to drop it, this is politics... And Politics is about lying, cheating, stealing, and playing with names. And let's face it, 'Assault Weapons' is a name that won't earn you points from several voting blocks.
congress..in a republican controlled congress, about as likely as a snowball
in hell lasting for more than 30 secs
I do have one question, though. Ignoring the AWB, what is your opinion on Dean's gun policy, IE, turning the power over to the states?
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Personally, I don't love the idea but it's infinitely preferable to what Al Gore proposed back in 2000. Dean's the only Democrat that I'd vote for.I do have one question, though. Ignoring the AWB, what is your opinion on Dean's gun policy, IE, turning the power over to the states?
BTW, a lot of commentators think that Gore's gun platform cost him his home state, and hence the Presidency.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
What was his gun platform?Glocksman wrote: BTW, a lot of commentators think that Gore's gun platform cost him his home state, and hence the Presidency.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Oooh!Stravo wrote:Why does anyone NEED these weapons is the core question. You can defend yourself and your property with a handgun, shotgun or rifle.
Handgun!
Shotgun!
Rifle!
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Licensing (with photo) of handgun owners, registration of all firearms, ban on 'junk' (read: inexpensive) guns and the rest of the Brady wish list.SirNitram wrote:What was his gun platform?Glocksman wrote: BTW, a lot of commentators think that Gore's gun platform cost him his home state, and hence the Presidency.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
I can agree with the first two, myself; after all, we photo-liscense and register cars, and those aren't built to be weapons. But I understand how this would piss off enough voters to kill Gore.Glocksman wrote:Licensing (with photo) of handgun owners, registration of all firearms, ban on 'junk' (read: inexpensive) guns and the rest of the Brady wish list.SirNitram wrote:What was his gun platform?Glocksman wrote: BTW, a lot of commentators think that Gore's gun platform cost him his home state, and hence the Presidency.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Sorry bud, but the question is, Why should the goverment ban these guns? Especially when they do not pose any greater or significant threat than other legal arms.Stravo wrote:Why does anyone NEED these weapons is the core question. You can defend yourself and your property with a handgun, shotgun or rifle.
I've said before, that if it were full automatic weapons, I would agree with you and Gil. But these are semi auto rifles that look military and thus because of that look, they are banned. It makes no sense.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
- RedImperator
- Roosevelt Republican
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
- Location: Delaware
- Contact:
Need isn't a part of it. Unless you can prove that keeping them legal poses a significant threat to public health and safety (and it beats the shit out of me how you do that without proving ALL semiautomatic weapons do that), AND that banning them would reduce this threat in some meaningful way, you've got no more business outlawing them because I don't "need" them than you do outlawing blowjobs and TV sets because I don't, strictly speaking, need them, either.Stravo wrote:Why does anyone NEED these weapons is the core question. You can defend yourself and your property with a handgun, shotgun or rifle.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
X-Ray Blues
Because if you post a picture like the one that Shep just did with that rifle, the uneducated folks will look at it and go "Ohhh...that looks dangerous." A vast majority of people are gun noobs or simply uninformed (I am firmly in the noob camp) The anitgun lobby has been using and winning the whole "It looks dangerous." argument.Knife wrote:Sorry bud, but the question is, Why should the goverment ban these guns? Especially when they do not pose any greater or significant threat than other legal arms.Stravo wrote:Why does anyone NEED these weapons is the core question. You can defend yourself and your property with a handgun, shotgun or rifle.
I've said before, that if it were full automatic weapons, I would agree with you and Gil. But these are semi auto rifles that look military and thus because of that look, they are banned. It makes no sense.
I have yet to see the pro gun lobby come back with anything other than "It's our damned rights to have these guns." When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
But that just validates my point, they want to ban them due to their appearence and percived abilities. The so called assualt rifle is no more dangerous than a hunting rifle. Banning them means little for saftey and alot for political agendas.Because if you post a picture like the one that Shep just did with that rifle, the uneducated folks will look at it and go "Ohhh...that looks dangerous." A vast majority of people are gun noobs or simply uninformed (I am firmly in the noob camp) The anitgun lobby has been using and winning the whole "It looks dangerous." argument.
It is our damn right and in this country that should be enough.I have yet to see the pro gun lobby come back with anything other than "It's our damned rights to have these guns." When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
- RedImperator
- Roosevelt Republican
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
- Location: Delaware
- Contact:
Since when is public ignorance basis for policy? Oh, I know, it's been done plenty of times and will be done plenty of times in the future, but that doesn't mean it's right. Inner city kids AREN'T shooting the shit out of each other with these guns, because they can't afford them, they're not easy to conceal, and they offer no advantages over regular semiautomatic rifles.Stravo wrote:Because if you post a picture like the one that Shep just did with that rifle, the uneducated folks will look at it and go "Ohhh...that looks dangerous." A vast majority of people are gun noobs or simply uninformed (I am firmly in the noob camp) The anitgun lobby has been using and winning the whole "It looks dangerous." argument.
I have yet to see the pro gun lobby come back with anything other than "It's our damned rights to have these guns." When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
X-Ray Blues
This is what the gun control lobby has been using to great effect. Hell we have Brady making inroads using these arguments for years that culminated in the Brady bill. The gun lobby has not won the hearts and minds of those that have no clue what a semi automatic vs. an automatic means.RedImperator wrote:Since when is public ignorance basis for policy? Oh, I know, it's been done plenty of times and will be done plenty of times in the future, but that doesn't mean it's right. Inner city kids AREN'T shooting the shit out of each other with these guns, because they can't afford them, they're not easy to conceal, and they offer no advantages over regular semiautomatic rifles.Stravo wrote:Because if you post a picture like the one that Shep just did with that rifle, the uneducated folks will look at it and go "Ohhh...that looks dangerous." A vast majority of people are gun noobs or simply uninformed (I am firmly in the noob camp) The anitgun lobby has been using and winning the whole "It looks dangerous." argument.
I have yet to see the pro gun lobby come back with anything other than "It's our damned rights to have these guns." When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
Knife - look at Abortion, its a right (so far) but that doesn't stop both sides from arguing it back and forth to try and regulate or eliminate it all together, thankfully the pro choice groups have been more effective in their propaganda on this issue. In the case of guns we have the control lobby winning and the gun lobby gives us images of Charlton Heston holding up a rifle and proclaiming "Only from my cold dead fingers." which in the environment of post Columbine and the other such incidents makes the gun lobby seem very insenstive and callous.
Red Imperator - this is a democracy and if you can fool enough of the people in time you can get just about anything done. Remember the arguments against democracy that have been around since Athens equating it to mob rule. The ignorant have just as much a right to vote as you or I. Is it right? Do you want to decide who is informed enough to vote on an issue? Politics will never work in a perfect world.
I was once a rabid anti gun person till my best buddy from Minnesota in law school 'educated' me on some gun issues. I am willing to learn, but many others shared my view before my eyes were opened. This is the issue that the gun lobby has not seemed to grasp yet.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
- Posts: 29842
- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Who gives a shit about the inner city dumbasses? Let them kill each otherStravo wrote:When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
off in a darwinian manner.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Because many of them vote.MKSheppard wrote:Who gives a shit about the inner city dumbasses? Let them kill each otherStravo wrote:When you have inner city kids shooting the shit out of each other with these same guns, that just doesn't fly with many voters anymore.
off in a darwinian manner.
Personally I think educating them to the point where they realize just what fools they are for electing idiots such as Maxine Waters to Congress is a good idea.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- RedImperator
- Roosevelt Republican
- Posts: 16465
- Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
- Location: Delaware
- Contact:
Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. But this isn't a debate about whether it CAN be done (the mob can accomplish just about anything it pleases if it's sufficiently riled, even in undemocratic states), but whether it SHOULD be done (unless I've completely misread this thread, in which case, never mind).Stravo wrote:This is what the gun control lobby has been using to great effect. Hell we have Brady making inroads using these arguments for years that culminated in the Brady bill. The gun lobby has not won the hearts and minds of those that have no clue what a semi automatic vs. an automatic means.
<snip response to Knife>
Red Imperator - this is a democracy and if you can fool enough of the people in time you can get just about anything done. Remember the arguments against democracy that have been around since Athens equating it to mob rule. The ignorant have just as much a right to vote as you or I. Is it right? Do you want to decide who is informed enough to vote on an issue? Politics will never work in a perfect world.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
X-Ray Blues