Ok....

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:14pm

This is for the "Would" thread, but I just felt like starting my own thread.

China's military.....

F-7: MiG-21 knockoff with Western electronics. Most numerous fighter.

F-8 Finback. Advanced interceptor with Western electronics. This was the one "shot down" by the EP-3 ARES a while back.

J-9: F-7 replacement. Pakistan is to order some to replenish F-16 fleet.

Possible J-10. The caption pretty much sums it up nicely.

J-11: what they call the Flanker

J-12: Rumored JSF "copy"

JH-7: failed domestic competitor to J-11 Flanker

K-8: Standard trainer

Q-5: Obsolete but still potent ground attack aircraft based on MiG-19 Farmer. Most numerous ground attacker.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:15pm

Theretical Chinese AWACS

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 07:16pm

So, basically what you're saying is that China doesn't even have the ability to conquer Taiwan, and that it would stand no chance against the US if it ever tried to invade. Right?

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:18pm

Z-5 Hound

Yep, same Dauphin. Used as both ASW and troop transport in PLA and PLAN

D-4 drone

All of their transports are knockoffs of early Soviet stuff. They have yet to appear to have an indiginous transport.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:19pm

Type 90, a completely indigenous tank despite its obvious resemblence to the T-80. They have far too many armor types to list, so this will just serve as a general example.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:20pm

Master of Ossus wrote:So, basically what you're saying is that China doesn't even have the ability to conquer Taiwan, and that it would stand no chance against the US if it ever tried to invade. Right?

Not at all. If all the rumors are to be believed, China stands a good chance rivalling us in the near future.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 07:25pm

Yes China has about this many Anhip assets

0

Bulding any signfies they want to take Tawian which is why we have Satalites checking thier Navel Yards and Coats every few hours to see if they are trying to build anything

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-22 07:26pm

Well, it just depends on whether or not their air force is better than ours. Anything else is irrelevant. As soon as we gain air superiority, the war is ours.

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-09-22 07:30pm

If you mean in say 20-30 years, if they don't

1) get themselves involved in a nuclear exchange
2) or break up in a civil war,
3) or go through a major financial
4) get involved in a major war

I consider the probablity of all happening high. As in each and every one happening. some more than once.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:30pm

Now most importantly, PLAN assets:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/plan/cv.htm

Read the above. And think real hard....

The Chinese bought two fully functional Sovremennies from the Russians

Luhai destroyer, their most modern. Complete with French and German weapons and electronics.

Luhu, a slightly differently armed version of the Luhai.

Luda, their most numerous destroyer. Obsolete, but most have been upgraded with French systems.

Jiangwei, their most powerful frigates. Very modern, and built with Western assistance.

Jingwui, their most numerous frigate.

Houjain class large missile boat.

Houxin class missile boat

The rest of their missile boats are Russian Osa knockoffs, but they have friggin many of them.

If your eyes are working, you know what those are.

Han, their own version of the 688

And of course the Russians have sold them Kilos up the wazoo.

And they do have amphib forces

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship ... /yukan.htm

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 07:34pm

Exuse me, EFFECTIVE Landing Assets, Thier current Ahibious assets besides being very poorly armored(Some Merchant ships are better armored) they simply are not very effective LD, Yukans are NOTRIOUS for swamping and flipping in a Storm and if you think they can make it from China to the US without running through a Storm NTM whatever we throw at them in-between here and there you are smoking somthing

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-22 07:37pm

Yes, but could any of that get here without being destroyed by our fighters and bombers???

Azeron · Post by **Azeron** » 2002-09-22 07:38pm

as for the FAS, although they may seem credible, they have made some really big partisan blunders in the past. I would count them credible.

As for the PLAN, All the ships are at least 20 years behind ours. Soviet vessels were and always will be roundly inferior to ours.

There is nothing wester about the chinese vessels. Yes hey have a sleek exterior, but the tech is defintely from the 70's. Rusisan tech is for show, not fighting.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:39pm

Mr Bean wrote:Exuse me, EFFECTIVE Landing Assets, Thier current Ahibious assets besides being very poorly armored(Some Merchant ships are better armored) they simply are not very effective LD, Yukans are NOTRIOUS for swamping and flipping in a Storm and if you think they can make it from China to the US without running through a Storm NTM whatever we throw at them in-between here and there you are smoking somthing

I actually was in the process of making that post when the others were discussing amphib assests. Yes, they suck, but they're working on it....

...though what they oughta do is by some Ivans from the Russkies.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-22 07:41pm

Actually...when you look my my original post, I said could they invade us successfully with their CURRENT military.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-22 07:41pm

Espcially the Subs, To say they would die like Red-shirts to Rangers is a bit of a understatment

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-22 07:43pm

Mr Bean wrote:Espcially the Subs, To say they would die like Red-shirts to Rangers is a bit of a understatment

They have SSBNs. They could probably lob SLBMs at the US from port if they have to. And they're trying to build them like crazy (key word: TRYING)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-09-22 07:44pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:Now most importantly, PLAN assets:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/plan/cv.htm

Read the above. And think real hard....

[/b]

Ah, so the PLA(N) is thinking of getting a few CVs, with no previous experience running them. It'll take years for them to get up to speed with carrier operations even after they're comissioned. In addition, it seems that they're planning on 40-kton ships. I'd take a CVF or the CdG over them, nevermind a modern USN CVN.

The Chinese bought two fully functional Sovremennies from the Russians

IIRC, Aegis should do pretty well against them, and if not a bunch of submarines will, as PLA(N) ASW doesn't seem too good.

Houjain class large missile boat.

Houxin class missile boat

The rest of their missile boats are Russian Osa knockoffs, but they have friggin many of them.

Missile boats are almost useless. They lack the sensors to effectively use their armament.

If your eyes are working, you know what those are.

IIRC, the Chinese boomers don't work very well, nor are they quiet enough to escape enemy fast-attack boats.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-09-22 07:47pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Espcially the Subs, To say they would die like Red-shirts to Rangers is a bit of a understatment
They have SSBNs. They could probably lob SLBMs at the US from port if they have to. And they're trying to build them like crazy (key word: TRYING)

FAS (whose information I take with large grains of salt) estimates an 8000-km range CSS-NX-4 (JL-2) with IOC in 2003, but there aren't any boomers in the PLA(N) capable of handling them. Their current CSS-N-3 (JL-1) only has a range of 1700-km.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-09-22 07:50pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Actually...when you look my my original post, I said could they invade us successfully with their CURRENT military.

Who is "us"? Taiwan? They don't have the amphibious assets to do that. Japan? Same problem. United States? Ditto.

Russia? They get nuked. SE Asia? They tried that in 1979 and got a beat-down. India? Yeah, right.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-22 07:53pm

You can CLEARLY see I said us, meaning the u.s.