Episode 3 Incredible Cross Sections?

[Brian Young]

At least DWR has a PhD in archeology.

Is that what his background was in?

Yep. I just checked. On the inside of the back cover of the VD, it says "Dr. David West Reynolds earned his PhD in archaeology at the University of Michigan."
UM... I hear they are trying to put together a football team, but I don't know if they've had any luck...

[Frank Hipper]

ICS is not just a cartoon book!

I hope that's not the impression I gave when I said "for the artwork, mostly", because looking at that artwork, I can only gaze in wonder at the amount of thought and ingenuity that went into it.

I've worked in aerospace before, and have some *small* inkling of what designing the internal layout of those vehicles entails. Believe me, I'm aware of what it took to produce them, even if my areas of experience lend me to appreciate the art aspect on a more personal level.

[Connor MacLeod]

Wasn't Curtis also credited on "Worlds of AOTC" though as well? That suggests he is being kept on still. Hell, they still use DWR, so I imagine they would still use Curtis.

True; it's mostly Illuminatus Primus' comment that has me concerned. Mind you, I have no idea what his inside connection is or how good it is, so all of this might be mere vapour.

It doesnt surprise me. Novelists of all kinds, even in the non-technical manuals, have consulted various sources on the web and off in the past (check the credits for many sources.) Hell, weren't Rob Brown and Curtis also credited in Rebel Dawn ffor information on the Falcon in addition to the OT ICS?

And lets not forget Dan Wallace, who I also believe started out as a mere fan and has authored quite a few books (including the Anakin Skywalker "story of Darth Vader" one that gave us the "multimegaton compression bomb" asteroid reference ) Wallace isn't exactly Curtis's level, but he's impressed me before. (He was the one who explicitly quantified the Nar Shaddaa BDZ as reducing a planet to "molten slag" in the Essential Chronology, so he seems to be at least of a similar mind of Curtis, at least IMHO.)

Basically, you have all the different factions or writers and authors having their own little "niches" of resources it would seem. That TFN would be included does not surprise me in the least. I fail to see why it should be such a big deal though, since a.) its clearly happened since the novels started being published and insofar as inconsistnecies and fuckups go, it could have been much worse, and b.) failing that, we have an established canon hierarchy to fall back on (with the ICS's and VD's of higher status than the others, thus further suggesting that a mindset more like Curtis's is becoming more dominant at LFL.)

So long as the authoring of SW novels encompasses numerous and diverse writers, I fail to see how this will stop. And to be frank, I'm not sure I would neccesarily like a "small and standardized" roster of authors, even if Curtis were apart of it.

[NecronLord]

Well, what if it's you?

I'd say that's about as likely as a thunderstorm in my underwear

Not that I couldn't write something like that if I wanted to, or do a good job given my abilities, but I've been in enough business organizations to know that somebody in the system would veto my name even in the extremely unlikely scenario that it comes up in the first place, because any ability to research the facts or write calmly when necessary would be dismissed due to my tendency to speak bluntly in public, or worse yet, say a lot of facetious things which could easily be taken out of context to "prove" I'm nuts. And of course, I don't conceal my contempt for the exact sort of people who would probably be making the decision. They would view me as Dilbert.

Hell, I would do something like that for free if the opportunity came up, but you have to either campaign for something like that or have some "champion" inside the organization on your behalf. Big organizations like any major corporation (including Lucasfilm) are ruled by politics, and the most competent person doesn't necessarily get the job.

I can see a certain troll seeing "Star Wars Episode III Incredible Cross Sections, By Mike Wong" and shouting "NOOOO THE APOCALYPSE HAS COME" and proceeding to bash his head against them in an effort to destroy them.

[Companion Cube]

After AOTC ICS, it would be a shame to go back to the level of content seen in the previous ones. Hopefully, Curtis Saxton is still doing it.

That said, Mr. Wong doing the ICS would be pretty damn cool.

[Striderteen]

If for no other reason than to see the expression on DarkStar's face...

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't know if you'd call it an "inside connection." I was once a poster in JC before coming here (just like FTeik). Daniel Wallace, most of the major writers (including Stover), and editors at Dark Horse have all stopped by regularly. JC Literature was even tapped on the question on whether the Marvel series should be reprinted.

The particular incident I was refering to was with a ~20,000 post-member named Valiento, who personally corresponded with Zahn to create a new C'boath chronology (as the SW Core Rulebook was flawed in its perception, and with LFL moving the Clone Wars and all).

From: Valiento
Date Sent: 9/20/02 5:20pm
Date Read: 9/21/02 9:09am
Subject: RE: Sorry....lol
Body: Treknobabble up the wazoo. It sounds like mr. spocks guide to star wars.

[Publius]

Valiento's style of analysis tends toward the literary style (for example, he has repeatedly stated that it is unimportant how large the films show the Executor to be, and that it is only important that she is quite large). Furthermore, he, like many others, both here and there, tends to identify his interpretations of the facts with the facts themselves, and can often take a dogmatic approach. While not necessarily having an antipathy for Dr Saxton himself, Valiento does have a visceral aversion to Dr Saxton's empirical method and conclusions.

The fora at the Jedi Council are somewhat unfairly maligned. While it is certainly true that the quality of the average discussion there is somewhat lacking, the same could be said of any forum, on any webboard. There are some truly delightful discussions to be had, if one finds the right people. Furthermore, it gives one the opportunity to talk with some of the creators themselves and get an idea of their intentions (for example, in a private message, Mr Stackpole once mentioned that he had intended for the Sate Pestage seen to die in "Mandatory Retirement" to be the real one, and the one on Byss to be a clone).

As is the case with other sites, such as Ex Astris Scientia, the principal thing to keep in mind is that different places are best suited to different things. For empirical analysis, the Jedi Council is simply not the place to go; for information on literary sources, or publishing information, or references, however, the Jedi Council can be quite useful.

Note to Mr Wong: Dr West-Reynolds wrote an article in issue 68 describing the method he used to write the first two Incredible Cross-Sections books. He mentioned that he approached it from an archaeological perspective, wanting to draw information about the civilisations from the technologies they produced. Furthermore, he gave due and proper credit to the illustrators who worked on the project, both of whom have extensive experience in illustrating aerospace equipment, and discussed the method used to design and "fill-out" the cross-sections. If you should have an opportunity, you might care to pick up the issue, as the article actually is quite interesting.

Publius

[Sea Skimmer]

There's no way there wouldn't be a Visual Dictionary, I think it's a near certainty that the planned tech books simply haven't been announced.

I'd actually like Saxton to do a different kind of book, maybe a nice 250 page book on ships, which doesn't have the tiny word count limit of ICS. But another ICS would be just great and is far more likely to happen. it sold very well so I can't see them not having another one.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'd actually like Saxton to do a different kind of book, maybe a nice 250 page book on ships, which doesn't have the tiny word count limit of ICS. But another ICS would be just great and is far more likely to happen. it sold very well so I can't see them not having another one.

Not with an NEGTVV coming out, no.

[His Divine Shadow]

So would anyone buy the next ICS if it reverted back to minimal descriptions of what we already saw onscreen? Or do you like all the attention to detail, and scientific numbers Dr. Saxton squeezes into those pages?

Unless Saxton's writing it, I won't be getting it, might as well just get the important stuff from others, assuming there would be any important stuff.

[Brian Young]

Dr West-Reynolds wrote an article in issue 68 describing the method he used to write the first two Incredible Cross-Sections books. He mentioned that he approached it from an archaeological perspective, wanting to draw information about the civilisations from the technologies they produced.

This, IMO, makes him a good fit for the VD. He has an eye for detail and a scientific background. His background in archaeology makes him a good choice for the VD.
The ICS is a different kind of project. It not only shows where things are and what they are called. It shows *how things work*. That is why I think it is only appropriate for someone with either an astrophysics or engineering background.
And who is an astrophysicist and knows more about Star Wars than anyone other than cast and crew? Curtis Saxton.

[phongn]

I'd actually like Saxton to do a different kind of book, maybe a nice 250 page book on ships, which doesn't have the tiny word count limit of ICS. But another ICS would be just great and is far more likely to happen. it sold very well so I can't see them not having another one.

IIRC, Saxton has expressed his dislike of such books, though a Galactic Empire Starfleet Institute's Combat Fleets of the Galaxy would be interesting.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'd actually like Saxton to do a different kind of book, maybe a nice 250 page book on ships, which doesn't have the tiny word count limit of ICS. But another ICS would be just great and is far more likely to happen. it sold very well so I can't see them not having another one.

IIRC, Saxton has expressed his dislike of such books, though a Galactic Empire Starfleet Institute's Combat Fleets of the Galaxy would be interesting.

What'd he say of them?

[Ender]

I'd actually like Saxton to do a different kind of book, maybe a nice 250 page book on ships, which doesn't have the tiny word count limit of ICS. But another ICS would be just great and is far more likely to happen. it sold very well so I can't see them not having another one.

IIRC, Saxton has expressed his dislike of such books, though a Galactic Empire Starfleet Institute's Combat Fleets of the Galaxy would be interesting.

What'd he say of them?

IIRC, he just points out the inherent flaws that they are poorly researched, often contradicted, and nonsensical in their treatment of things. Rather similar to his very justified disdain of WEG.

[Solauren]

I'd like to see an ICS for he entire Star Wars universe published, complete with full 'final' stats on all the major ships.

i.e
Imperial Star Destroyer
Length, Width, Height, Total Volume, Desk, Crew,Shield Capacity, Heavy Gun number, firepower, location, rate of fire
etc etc

That would be nice.

That would also be the ultimate fan boy must have

[Darth Wong]

The worst thing about WEG is the long shadow cast by their mistakes. Look at the SSD length; if you "read between the lines" of the various sources, you can see that there are competing factions at Lucasfilm. Somebody decided to up the figure from 8km to 12.8km in "Behind the Magic", even though the true figure is 17.6km.

By raising the figure, they were making a tacit concession that the original figure was wrong. Fair enough, since anybody who's not blind can watch TESB and figure that out for themselves. But why not simply go to the correct figure of 17.6km, as intended by the special-effects people who deliberately made it to be 11 times bigger than an ISD, as explained clearly in "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives"?

The only explanation which makes any sense is that there are competing political forces and factions at work within Lucasfilm, pushing and pulling against any attempt to change the status quo. The 12.8km figure was a classic example of a political compromise (it's exactly halfway between the stupid WEG figure and the correct size) and it simply reeks of office politics.

[Clone Sergeant]

I don't see why they wouldn't release another ICS for Episode 3. Given the fact that the last book was well recieved. Besides, who else is going to write it? (Besides,Darth Wong.) DWR has done two ICS books already. The only reason I could imagine for Saxton not writing the book is if his professional responsibilities prevent him.

It may even be a little early to begin work of the book anyway. Lucas and company have been filming for the last couple weeks. Which means a large part of the design work has been done. But given Lucas's habit of last minute tinkering, DK may have decided to wait off a little before starting work.

For example in Episode II most of the vehicles and equipment from the Battle of Geonosis didn't make it into the book because they were designed and added to the film very late into post-production.

If DK had waited longer we might have had firepower stats for the SPHA-T

Anyway, It has been confirmed officially that there will be a blow out space battle in the next film. For me to be happy, half of the next book had better be devoted to the fighters and capital ships featured in it.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

IIRC, he just points out the inherent flaws that they are poorly researched, often contradicted, and nonsensical in their treatment of things. Rather similar to his very justified disdain of WEG.

So he doesn't like the books, but might not have a problem writing one?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I think he means the Essential Guides.

[phongn]

I was referring to him writing such books.

[Ignorant_Boy]

*shudders at the thought of some moron from TFN writing the next ICS*

[Sea Skimmer]

For example in Episode II most of the vehicles and equipment from the Battle of Geonosis didn't make it into the book because they were designed and added to the film very late into post-production.

If DK had waited longer we might have had firepower stats for the SPHA-T

Actually no, that stuff didn't make it in because there was a strict size and word limit. Saxton mentioned how they originally wanted to include the SPHA-T and a number of driod's in the book but couldn't in an interview.

[Durandal]

The Episode II ICS set such an incredible benchmark for the next one that it's difficult to imagine anyone but Curis doing it (well Mike too, but we all know that that will never happen).

Hell, work on Star Wars shields alone could fill a nicely-sized volume. I'd be very interested in seeing all the napkins that Curtis has written on to determine the figures he has.