Starfleet's level in B5.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-22 01:26pm

Would Starfleet be as powerful as: Younger Races, Middle Children, or First Ones?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 01:28pm

It would almost certainly be a First Ones caliber race in terms of technology. Its firepower, speed, and shields make it superior to even many of the FO's.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-22 01:37pm

Ossus, are you thinking of the Federation starfleet...?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 01:45pm

Cyril wrote:Ossus, are you thinking of the Federation starfleet...?

Yeah. Think 50-100 MT torpedoes against hulls rated for under 2 MTs. It simply has to be a FO. A single Miranda class ship (with a crew of under 50) would be able to destroy a Sharlin class cruiser easily. And the Sharlin is probably the most powerful ship in the Middle Races.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-09-22 01:56pm

Sadly, the Federation is FO-level.

Ossus, did you mean <500 crew?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 01:58pm

Howedar wrote:Sadly, the Federation is FO-level.

Ossus, did you mean <500 crew?

Aren't Mirandas under 50? A GCS doesn't even have a 1500 person crew. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong class. What's the really small one?

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-22 03:26pm

Hmmm....
The 2MT thing might be true (i spit that out with a dry, bloody throat) they dont have the speed advantage. ST warp is the slowest, most inefficiant FTL propulsion system in Sci-Fi.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-09-22 06:05pm

Master of Ossus wrote: Aren't Mirandas under 50? A GCS doesn't even have a 1500 person crew. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong class. What's the really small one?

Considering they probably have 10 crew already on the bridge, I can't imagine a 200-odd meter long vessel having a crew of around 50.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-09-22 06:07pm

Chronologically, B5 is set in TOS era.

Technologically, the Federation have weapons advantage, but are lacking in speed and combat experience.

The advantage Torpedoes offer could be countered by the active defences on many B5 vessels, and on the sheer manoeuverability of fighters up to the White Star. (64MT is all very well, unless you're planning to be nowhere near it when it goes off)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 06:31pm

SolidSnake wrote:Hmmm....
The 2MT thing might be true (i spit that out with a dry, bloody throat) they dont have the speed advantage. ST warp is the slowest, most inefficiant FTL propulsion system in Sci-Fi.

Not true. It takes days to move to B5 from some worlds that are VERY close by (Earth and Centauri Prime). B5 is not a galactic story. It is the story of a small portion of the Galaxy. The same can be said about ST. Warp is not unusually slow, however, compared to B5 hyperspace. Hyperspace is inconsistent in how fast it is. For some interstellar travel, hyperspace is much faster. For other routes, it is much slower. On average (by an eye-ball comparison) hyperspace appears only slightly faster than warp 6 or warp 7.

The real problem with the Federation is their lack of industrial capacity. That is more significant than their slight differences in speed. Many B5 races can build together fleets of ships that are larger, volumetrically, than anything we see in ST except for Space Dock and the one other station. B5 clearly has an industrial edge, but certainly not a technological one.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-09-22 06:47pm

Master of Ossus wrote:The real problem with the Federation is their lack of industrial capacity. That is more significant than their slight differences in speed. Many B5 races can build together fleets of ships that are larger, volumetrically, than anything we see in ST except for Space Dock and the one other station. B5 clearly has an industrial edge, but certainly not a technological one.

Incorrect, Starfleet has Spacedock, Starbase 74, Starbase 84, Starbase 133, and possibly more large stations. Starbase 74, Starbase 84, Starbase 133 are all of the newer model of Spacedock that have doors to fit a GCS. They are all larger than B5, and 4 is only a lower limit.

As for the topic, Starfleet is certainly First One level.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 06:56pm

Howedar wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: Aren't Mirandas under 50? A GCS doesn't even have a 1500 person crew. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong class. What's the really small one?
Considering they probably have 10 crew already on the bridge, I can't imagine a 200-odd meter long vessel having a crew of around 50.

How many followers did Khan have? He and his little team were able to take over such a ship pretty easily.

goten · Post by **goten** » 2002-09-22 07:20pm

I found a web site that listed the speed of different ships in sci-fi.
warp 9.6=0.22 light years per hour
ISD 40 light years per hour in hyperdrive
Battlestar Galactica 6 light years per hour in hyperdrive
B5 Omaga class destroyer 11 light per hour in hyper space
whitestar 85 light years per hour in hyper space
shadow battle crab 200 light years per hour in hyper space

It may have been wrong let me know what you think.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 07:50pm

Where did the site get that information on B5 speed? Hyperspace is inconsistent in how quickly it lets a starship move. Some trips of the same distance to different places have vastly different time requirements, because hyperspace does not conform to real space on a simple ratio. It is more complicated than that.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-09-22 07:55pm

goten wrote:I found a web site that listed the speed of different ships in sci-fi.
warp 9.6=0.22 light years per hour
ISD 40 light years per hour in hyperdrive
Battlestar Galactica 6 light years per hour in hyperdrive
B5 Omaga class destroyer 11 light per hour in hyper space
whitestar 85 light years per hour in hyper space
shadow battle crab 200 light years per hour in hyper space

It may have been wrong let me know what you think.

As for a whitestar going faster than SW hyperdrive, I'll believe it when I see the evidence for it.

And I think that speed for warp is a bit fast considering voyager needed 70 years to travel 70 thousand light years at max warp.

70 000 ly / 70 year = 1000 ly / year

÷ 365 = 2.74 ly / day

÷ 24 = .11 ly / day

So I wouldn't put too much weight in this site of yours.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-22 07:56pm

SolidSnake wrote:ST warp is the slowest, most inefficiant FTL propulsion system in Sci-Fi.

Not true. The Enchanach Drive of a Fourth Imperium Utu-class planetoid was limited to 720 c. The average Achuultani ship's hyperdrive comes out at around 40 c, with the larger, more advanced classes having slightly faster drives.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-09-22 08:31pm

Master of Ossus wrote: How many followers did Khan have? He and his little team were able to take over such a ship pretty easily.

I dunno. However, I think the E-nil had 400 crew or so.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-22 08:36pm

Howedar wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: How many followers did Khan have? He and his little team were able to take over such a ship pretty easily.
I dunno. However, I think the E-nil had 400 crew or so.

It did, but I got the impression that a Miranda did not require nearly the crew that the Enterprise did.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-22 09:36pm

[quote="Master of Ossus"]
Not true. It takes days to move to B5 from some worlds that are VERY close by (Earth and Centauri Prime). B5 is not a galactic story. It is the story of a small portion of the Galaxy. The same can be said about ST. Warp is not unusually slow, however, compared to B5 hyperspace. Hyperspace is inconsistent in how fast it is. For some interstellar travel, hyperspace is much faster. For other routes, it is much slower. On average (by an eye-ball comparison) hyperspace appears only slightly faster than warp 6 or warp 7. [quote]

It's inconsistant because B5 hyperspatial velocities are different depending on what kind of drive you are using in hyperspace. Jump Engines provide no thrust, so the term is inaccurate. Jump Engines just open a jump point into and out of hyperspace. When you are in hyperspace, you just use your normal drive system. Thats why its inconsistant. A ship using Ion Engines, like an Omega Destroyer would get somewhere much slower than a Whitestar, which has gravimetric engines. Make sense?

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-22 09:43pm

SolidSnake wrote:It's inconsistant because B5 hyperspatial velocities are different depending on what kind of drive you are using in hyperspace. Jump Engines provide no thrust, so the term is inaccurate. Jump Engines just open a jump point into and out of hyperspace. When you are in hyperspace, you just use your normal drive system. Thats why its inconsistant. A ship using Ion Engines, like an Omega Destroyer would get somewhere much slower than a Whitestar, which has gravimetric engines. Make sense?

That's only part of it. See here.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-22 09:46pm

SolidSnake wrote:Hmmm....
The 2MT thing might be true (i spit that out with a dry, bloody throat) they dont have the speed advantage. ST warp is the slowest, most inefficiant FTL propulsion system in Sci-Fi.

The drives in the book starship troopers where slower

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-22 11:25pm

Whoo, SG-1 now has the fastest hyperdrive benchmarks.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-09-23 01:46am

As for the reason this thread was created, I voted for the feds at Middle Children level.

While the feds can beat the younger races and middle race level guys. They can't approach the feats done by the first ones.

They can't even begin to make planet killers, let alone in the numbers we saw being used by the FO.

And they're weapons are weak compared to, what was that number from b5tech.com....ah yes, ~250 megatons.

They're FTL travel is slow by comparison considering that it takes but a little more than a week to travel to travel 1/6 the galactic diameter.

Strong the feddies are compared to the younger races, but First ones they are not.

Rathark · Post by **Rathark** » 2002-09-23 02:01am

The Federation would be considered a freakishly powerful Middle Race. The chain reactions imposed by phasers on planetary crusts would initially be mistaken for First One technology if observed out of context. However, I don't see how the UFP could outsmart the First Ones ... not without extensive research and experience.

By comparison, the Galactic Empire would be at least like the Kirishiac - "mortals" with FO technology, even Thirdspace level as far as weapons and shielding are concerned.

The Culture ... well, even Lorien would be astonished, although he might get on quite well with the Minds.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-09-23 02:15am

Shadow WarChief wrote:They can't even begin to make planet killers, let alone in the numbers we saw being used by the FO.

Genesis device. Used once. Mass-producable? Damned if I know, but the capability is there.

Soran's trilithium anti-star torpedo. Used once. Mass-producable? Damned if I know, but firepower like that outclasses anything the FOs ever did on screen.

Rathark wrote: The Culture ... well, even Lorien would be astonished, although he might get on quite well with the Minds.

Imagine the fun Meatfucker would have with the FOs.

I wonder what an effectorized Vorlon would sound like...