jesus

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-08-01 10:19pm

did he exist?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-01 10:31pm

My beliefs say yes. Don't ask me to prove it, cause I can't.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-01 10:32pm

Does it matter? Finding some compelling peice of evidence from that era indicating that he existed wouldn't change me or my views one bit.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-08-02 12:06am

I'm starting to doubt that he did.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-02 12:33am

His existence is only verified in the Bible, is it not? I would venture to guess that a figure not unlike Jesus Christ did indeed exist, though he had to be pretty far off from the Biblical Jesus.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-08-02 12:40am

For some reason, I have this odd recollection that Josephus made mention of him, but I'm not 100% sure.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-08-02 12:44am

Maybe he existed, maybe not. Maybe his name wasn't even Jesus, but Walter. Maybe he didn't walk on water but dipped his feet in a fountain. Maybe he multiplied fish by saying "two fish multiplied by three equal six fish". Maybe he's a tall tale. Who cares. Whether he existed or not, he didn't do any real miracles, that's for sure, since magic doesn't exist, nor does a god.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-08-02 12:45am

Saurencaerthai wrote:For some reason, I have this odd recollection that Josephus made mention of him, but I'm not 100% sure.

He supposedly did but some historians believe that his works were altered.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-02 01:18am

Here's something interesting.

The so called Testimonium Flavianum. This is the only direct discussion of Jesus to be found in the writings of Josephus. Unfortunately, the text as we have it in extant copies of Josephus' Antiquities appears to have been dramatically re-written from a Christian point of view. (The writings of Josephus were brought down to us from antiquity not by the Jewish community, but by the Christians). The second column contains an Arabic quotation of the Josephus passage that has a much less Christian flavor. Some scholars have argued that the Arabic version has a more likely claim to originality.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-08-02 01:31am

I have no doubts that a bloke called Jesus existed and was a pain in the arse hippy-thorn-in-the-side for the authorities.

Then again, I also have no doubts that David Koresh existed.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-02 01:34am

StarshipTitanic wrote: He supposedly did but some historians believe that his works were altered.

Most. Only the rabid fundie whackjobs can seriously look at that ridiculous package and say that it's 100% authentic.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-02 01:39am

Someone with that name might have been running about in roughly that timeframe.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-08-02 01:50am

I'm starting to like Rye's multiJesus theory, that there were in fact numerous religious leaders in that era often producing a large range of ideas and thoughts and philosophies. If anyone has Cartoon History of the World, Part II, Larry Gonick devotes a page of illustration to the range of philosophical schizophrenia that is the so called word of Jesus.
Though given the philosophical ramifications of all the context eluded to in the bible, there was probably one religous figure at the time named jeshua, perhaps one of the greater leaders of the religous movements of the time.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-02 02:53am

Back then, it was common practice for weirdoes to proclaim themselves messiah. So it's not impossible that there around 20-30 A.D. was some guy claiming to be the Son of God, whose name was Yehoshua bin-Yuseph. (Which translates to Latin as "Jesus, filii Josephi" - or Jesus, son of Joseph

)

Slayen · Post by **Slayen** » 2003-08-02 05:29am

Sure, why not. Now did he do any of the things the bible says he did, I haven't the faintest idea.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-08-02 11:02am

Whether or not Josphephus's writings were changed or not doesnt make them a primary source anyway, his writings even in the altered pro-christian form are still secondary sources, so it matters not what he says on the subject

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-08-02 12:17pm

I've heard that the equivalent of jesus was a popular name back then, so it's likely there were a few. As for miracles, i doubt it, but i wont write it off altogether. I'm sure if David Blaine went back in time with a magic crew etc he could come off as a messiah.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-08-02 02:02pm

Rye wrote:I'm sure if David Blaine went back in time with a magic crew etc he could come off as a messiah.

BLACK JESUS!

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2003-08-05 02:12pm

I've become increasingly of the opinion that a singular "Jesus" as described in the New Testament did not, in fact, exist. I'm inclined to believe that he is either a composite of several different messianic cult figures, some of whom probably had died as much as a century before the supposed events of the NT, or he was a fiction created by Paul as a mouthpiece for his philosophy.

I'm aware that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," but the Christian fables get caught because they claim such wondrous miracles for Jesus, things that you have to believe SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE would have taken a few minutes to jot them down for posterity when they occured. This man supposedly through all of Judea into higgledy-piggledy, and eventually posthumously brought down a Roman governor. Where are the records? How is the Romans, perhaps the most meticulous record keepers until the Nazis came along, seemed to have missed not just the events of Jesus's life, but so much more pertaining to Christian claims? It is inexplicable, as far as I'm concerned.

Once again, people are expected to take things on Faith in the absence of evidence. I am not that kind of person, so I will have to leave that to people who are more gull--erm, I mean, Faithful.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-05 03:43pm

Haven't we covered this multiple times in the past?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-08-05 04:30pm

A guy named Jesus probably did exist, and he probably was a prophet or at the very least a religious man. This shit about him being the son of a god, IMOHP is complete and utter BS. It was obviously added on when the bible was written, to make him look mysterious and such.

I would find it funny if it turns out the guy was less than a noble son of a god. If he turned out to be a drunkard, womanizer or at the very least, a loon.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-05 04:44pm

Yes, this has been covered.
Linkage