Did SD.Net kill ASVS?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-02 01:09am

I post my chapters over at ASVS and its like aghost town over there, spam runneth over and there just isn;t the vibrant community that was going on over there just last year. I noticed that a vast majority of the vets and regulars are now over here. So my question (and keep in mind I was never part of teh ASVS community, I am an SD.Net baby) is whether SD.Net's popularity killed ASVS or was it a combination of factors like the essential end of the SW/ST debates or do the die hards think its not dead at all?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-02 01:21am

Given that 90% of the old regulars on it now post heavily here I'd say hell yes it killed it, well more like crippled as some productive activity remains. Though my poorly informed opinion is also that ASVS was on the decline from its height when these forums showed up

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-08-02 01:25am

Well, I found SDnet to be a lot more accessible, but it lacks certain parts of the ASVS culture.

Problem is that SDnet is too easil accessible to everyone, meaning that ASVS, for me at least has been lost in the background due to the fact that I haven't had home net for months now and have been relying on public access comps.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-02 02:36am

I think that the formation of this BBS was a contributing factor. However, you also have to look at the fact that the debates ended April 23rd, 2002 with the release of the ICS, and then this BBS was formed 3 months later. The only worthwhile Trekkies basically conceded the debate (Chris O'Farrel and Alyseka ... Edam kind of avoided the issue I think). This board wasn't the sole cause of ASVS' death, but it gave it a good push into the grave.

Add in the fact that a lot of prominent ASVSers are mods here, thus demanding more of our time be spent here, and the spam infestation that ASVS has at the moment, and you've got a pretty dead newsgroup.

It's unfortunate, to be sure. ASVS was a unique place of culture. But all good things must come to an end, and after years of constant kicking and almost no down-time, ASVS had to be put down.

But, like a phoenix, ASVS may rise from the ashes once again. Only time will tell. Let's not deliver the eulogy just yet.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-08-02 03:07am

ASVS was in decline from before this forum went online. As Durandal said, the ICS really ended most debates. Personally, I was spending too much time reading posts over there and here, and it was cutting into study time, so one or the other had to go. This place is just more interesting nowadays.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-02 03:07am

Durandal wrote:I think that the formation of this BBS was a contributing factor. However, you also have to look at the fact that the debates ended April 23rd, 2002 with the release of the ICS, and then this BBS was formed 3 months later. The only worthwhile Trekkies basically conceded the debate (Chris O'Farrel and Alyseka ... Edam kind of avoided the issue I think). This board wasn't the sole cause of ASVS' death, but it gave it a good push into the grave.

They only then conceded the debate of 1 ISD vs. up to a dozen or so GCS. The Empire vs. Federation debate was over many years ago.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-08-02 04:00am

Did SD.net kill it? Well yes and no. If someone has a terminal illness they are going to die, but anything that ends their life permaturely is technicaly responsible. It might be something that is normaly harmless, or it might be intentional. In this case it was mostly harmless. Mike finaly decided to join the darkside and move over to a message board format with something he could control. ASVS was sick, but it could have lasted for another sickly year or two. ENT and NEM might have prolonged its life even when its fate was sealed (SW wins and ASVS growing borring). Then SD.net forums come along and hasten the illness while syphoning away the major members. But it also does more then that. SD.net formed a partial middle ground between ASVS and SB.com. Now you have SB.com regulars showing up because its a format they are used to as well as ASVS regulars. Soon both SB and ASVS regulars reach respected status and even moderator positions. Given the level of responsibility here, it ensures ASVS is truly dead.

Of course having the well known Trek members finaly make their concession (at least the respected ones) helped matters along greatly. It was time for ASVS to move on. Their original goal in life is truly dead. Unless there is a fundamental change in either franchise, nothing else is going to happen. Now all that was left for the ASVS members to do was to teach new people the results of the debate and to adapt. So ASVS adapted into SD.net and looked to the future seeing how succesful SB.com could be. Then SD.net learned just how nasty trolls are even when you have a message board and admin authority.

Anyway, SD.net became its own unique identity thanks to former ASVS members, SB.com regulars who became joint members, and all the new members who find the sight for various reasons. We have a place beyond what ASVS was intended to be. Now we are something more, part of something bigger, and part of a new family even if the faces are familar. Some of us are old enemies, some are new enemies. Old friends reunite and new friends are made. Just don't feed the trolls.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-02 04:08am

I wouldn't say it's dead just yet, there's not much to debate about, Enterprise stinks, Nemisis sucked, Another year or so until Starwars is over

and I have no idea what's next, but as Bruce Springsteen sang, "Everything dies, baby that's a fact, but everything that dies, someday comes back."

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-08-02 04:08am

Took a class in melodrama Alyeska?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-08-02 04:13am

I feel as though I am obligated to put something to the jist of "Murderer of ASVS" into my sig.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-02 04:19am

Alyeska wrote:Some of us are old enemies, some are new enemies.

LOL!

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-08-02 05:04am

We're not dead yet. We're just on life support.

ASVS is still alive, and we will defend our home.

SEIG ASVS!

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-08-02 06:14am

I think what has happned is that the debate was won. At which point things rapidly devolved into offtopic fights and a place like SD.Net gave fresh targets to shoot at with different people.
Still, SD.Net does not have the wild west feel of ASVS. The railroad came to ASVS town, and with it came civillisation.
You could not have the flame fests of ASVS..I could not imagine the likes of the multi thread crossposted war with Alt.Starwars {Wes Hutchings and Bill Kohep..whatshisface} ever occuring here.

Still ASVS is now like a old gold town, used to be something, but now its just a few old boys at the pub reminicing about the good old days.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-08-02 06:32am

Dalton wrote:We're not dead yet. We're just on life support.

ASVS is still alive, and we will defend our home.

SEIG ASVS!

ASVS Forever!

SEIG ASVS!

SEIG ASVS!

SEIG ASVS!

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2003-08-02 06:52am

The ICS killed the debates which kept the place going(these debates were infact the very reason for the groups existsance), and SD.net was the few nails in the coffin.

SD.net rapidly branched out from solely Starwars VS startrek debates & starwar only discusion.

This because SW vs ST was basicly dead, and is now just thrashing out the details of how badly ST gets beaten by SW in every conceivable area(there are very few areas were ST is even on par or close to SW).

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-08-02 08:03am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Dalton wrote:We're not dead yet. We're just on life support.

ASVS is still alive, and we will defend our home.

SEIG ASVS!
ASVS Forever!

SEIG ASVS!

SEIG ASVS!

SEIG ASVS!

You might want to switch that I and E.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-08-02 08:51am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I feel as though I am obligated to put something to the jist of "Murderer of ASVS" into my sig.

Do that and you're a crushed gnome.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-08-02 08:54am

Cpt_Frank wrote:You might want to switch that I and E.

Technically it should be "Heil" ASVS, for that matter, but it IS ASVS.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-08-02 10:58am

Though ASVS has been dyng a death of a thousand papercuts I still enjoy it. I find the camaraderie a lot better there. There was no cliques (not that there's anything wrong with cliques) and the whole NG was like one big dysfunctional family.

LONG LIVE ASVS!!

LONG LIVE ASVS!!

LONG LIVE ASVS!!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-08-02 01:08pm

Dalton wrote:Took a class in melodrama Alyeska?

LOL, just calling it as I see it.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-08-02 01:17pm

*shrug*

I guess SD.Net has some of the feel of ASVS (sans the almost no-modded nature of a newsgroup), and it's far easier to navigate (at least for me) than a newsgroup like ASVS.

So, with me starting out here and becoming more aware of ASVS and, specifically, the people of it, this is just easier to use than a newsgroup, and when I did go take a look at ASVS, it seemed spammed over and not a whole lot going on, besides old timers chatting about stuff you probably "had to be there) to know, or you could probably find on SDNet anyway.

At least that's the way it is for me.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-08-02 01:22pm

What's ASVS?

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-08-02 02:33pm

Baron Mordo wrote:What's ASVS?

alt.Star Trek versus Star wars.

I might've mixed up the order of Star Wars and Star Trek... But you get the idea.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-02 02:33pm

Whang (Frying pan whap)

First check to see if your email supports newsgroups

Then go to Alt.startrek.vs.Starwars

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-08-02 02:34pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Then go to Alt.startrek.vs.Starwars

I thought it was the other way around.

Oh well.

How do those things get created, anyway? Can you go willy-nilly and make your own, or do you have to do something special?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Did SD.Net kill ASVS?

Did SD.NEt kill ASVS?

Did SD.Net kill ASVS?