Banning gay/lesbo marriages?

[Joe]

Most gay men I know do not appreciate being called "homos." "Lesbos" seems to be the equivalent for lesbians.

And Gil, as for why the word is offensive, it is not inherently so. Neither is the word "nigger," but it is the usage of the word in a derogatory context that makes it offensive. It is the same with the words "homo" and "lesbo." The words are typically used in a context that is derogatory to homosexuals. It's a term that they do not prefer, in any case; why use it when the word "gay," "lesbian," and "homosexual" can be used instead.

[Frank Hipper]

Not being a lesbian myself, I'm not terrifically qualified to to sound off on WHY "lesbo" is offensive.

But:

Running the hazard of guessing, it could be that "lesbo" has a history of being used derogatively, couldn't it? I mean come on....

It's a dimunitive form of the word lesbian, and when diminutives are used without consent, offense is normally taken.

[Wicked Pilot]

Does mean I have to get rid of all my "You're a Homo" pictures?

[HemlockGrey]

Depends. Do you want to make Baby Jesus cry?

On topic: The federal government should have any power to set any sort of criteria for legally recognized marriage beyond 'must be alive, and recognizably human'. It shouldn't be decided by the states, either. It's a hands-off thing.

[Frank Hipper]

Does mean I have to get rid of all my "You're a Homo" pictures?

Get rid of? I'm not the censorship board.

I mean, some of 'em ARE pretty funny, but they suck at the same time, if you can understand where I'm coming from.

[Andrew J.]

It looks like it was just a short hand way of saying the word "lesbian" to me

Just like "homo" is shorthand for "homosexual" and "'spic" is horthand for Hispanic.

[haas mark]

It is and isn't. It just depends on who you're talking to and the context of it all. MOST lesbians prefer being called LESBIAN rather than LESBO, same as most gays prefer to be called GAY or HOMOSEXUAL as opposed to FAG. You just have to be really careful who you're talking to.

~ver

*stares blankly at verilon*

Goodie, so when are you going to explain why it is offensive in the first place? So far, you've spent two seperate posts saying that is, but without any explaination. I'm starting to think you don't actually know why it is offensive, just that it is and thus requiring you to jump down someone elses throat over it.

Besides, where is the "It is and isn't" part coming from. Before you said it's highly derogatory, but now you are going the "context sensitive" route? If it is highly offensive, how is it any less offensive from the lips of one person (IE, Amanda, the person I mentioned before) and but worthy of a good ole fashioned message board gang flame for someone else?

Okay, so I don't know WHY it's offensive, it just IS. It's because it's been derogatory since before I was born, and still is. I don't know why "fag" is a bad word, but it is (and the only time I MIND being called one is when someone calls me a fag in anger). However, as per "lesbo," it's the same reason why you don't say "That's so gay!" around a gay person - because it takes a perfectly good word and puts it in a bad context.

Like I said, it IS AND ISN'T BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT. If it is used derogatorily, it is in BAD context. Sometimes even a joke is bad context (most of the time, rather). It depends on who is saying it and how (frankly, I couldn't care less about most statements of such, but "lesbo" and "faggot" and "homo" are the few words I just don't like hearing). SO some of it is subjective, but you still have to be careful. Some gay people call straight people "breeders." How would you feel if I started calling you a breeder?

~ver

[kojikun]

Fag is offensive because the origin word, faggot, means bundle of sticks in French. Back during the witch trials they used to throw gay people onto the fires that they used to burn witches just like a bundle of sticks.

[Hethrir]

After reading all the comments, i understand perfectly how those words are offensive, and apologise if i have ever used them

...Some gay people call straight people "breeders." How would you feel if I started calling you a breeder?

~ver

ROFL! I don't mean to lessen your arguement, but that is one of the funniest things i have ever heard!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Just to clear everything for us non-GALE folks, why is "lesbo" super-derogatory?* I've heard the term uttered by one person in real life to my knowledge, and she was a lesbian herself. A little etymology here would be nice.

*Also, could I ask a favor and skip the part where someone invariably says "Well, why is <insert derogatory term here> offensive?" This isn't Jeopardy, and answering a question with a question doesn't actually provide any answers. Likewise "It just is." is almost as useless as answering a question with a question. Naturally, with such a strong emotional response there is a clearly defined reason why "lesbo" is hyper-offensive rather than short hand for "lesbian". After all, none of us are particularly PC here, are we?

I generally disapprove of the use of the words "Lesbo" or "Dyke" by lesbians, and "fag" or "queer" by homosexuals in general. I also disapprove of blacks who call themselves "nigger", etc, on the basic principle that if these words are offensive that nobody should use them. They are offensive to me, and it bothers me that some people whom they are used derogatorily against take them as a badge of pride; however, I can attempt to stop that behaviour, and the use of the word in the standard derogatory fashion, like it was used in this thread, albeit unintentionally.

[Peregrin Toker]

I also disapprove of blacks who call themselves "nigger", etc, on the basic principle that if these words are offensive that nobody should use them.

Actually, ever since I heard of black people describing themselves as "niggers", I first thought it was slightly tongue-in-cheek....

However, some of these "self-proclaimed niggers" as I call them, apparently are quite serious about it.

Still, I have never found any rational explanation why people deliberately heap such derisive labels upon themselves.......

It's a particularly big mystery to me, since I have never gotten the opportunity to talk with a "Self-Proclaimed Nigger".

[XaLEv]

What about 'bi'? Does anyone find that one offensive?

I don't, but I don't really count since not much does...

[InnerBrat]

Words are offensive because they offend: pure and simple. You don't have to have any real rationale behind it.

Personally, I htink words are just that and should be used indiscriminately (liek swear words). However, if someone is going to be offended by a word I will not use it. I would never dream of calling Marina a lesbo or a dyke, anymore than I would call Verilon a fag, or any black person a nigger.
However, I don't give a flying fuck if someone calls me a dyke (lesbo is derogatory to me because it's a shortening of the word lesbian, without actaully becoming easier to say), unless of course they're employing it as a slur. Many (but not most) of my gay male friends IRL I happily call poofs (we don't use the word fag very often over here) mostly in joke but also for variety on of language.
It depends on who you're tlaking to. But when talking about people, I think it's only good manners to use the least offensive word possible.

As for the word 'bi', XaLEv, what other words are there?

[XaLEv]

As for the word 'bi', XaLEv, what other words are there?

Creamer is the only one I can think of, though I'm sure there are more.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Words are offensive because they offend: pure and simple. You don't have to have any real rationale behind it.

Personally, I htink words are just that and should be used indiscriminately (liek swear words). However, if someone is going to be offended by a word I will not use it. I would never dream of calling Marina a lesbo or a dyke, anymore than I would call Verilon a fag, or any black person a nigger.
However, I don't give a flying fuck if someone calls me a dyke (lesbo is derogatory to me because it's a shortening of the word lesbian, without actaully becoming easier to say), unless of course they're employing it as a slur. Many (but not most) of my gay male friends IRL I happily call poofs (we don't use the word fag very often over here) mostly in joke but also for variety on of language.
It depends on who you're tlaking to. But when talking about people, I think it's only good manners to use the least offensive word possible.

As for the word 'bi', XaLEv, what other words are there?

I think bi people should be called "normal". *snickers*

As for the word "dyke" -- I wasn't offended by it once, but then a friend of mine mentioned she was offended by people using it casually, and I thought about it and decided after that, that, well.. It just seemed less offensive than awfully stereotypical--and the stereotyping aspect bothered me until it offended me! I suppose that's the same reason the word "negro" bothers people today--It's not really all that different than the Spanish or Portugese word for black, "Negra", and has less of the derogatory connotations of The N Word--and many black groups still have it in their names today--but, contextually, it's a stereotyping word. Negro takes you back to plantation days and the old "happy black" stereotype of the deep south, etc--and dyke bothers me in the same way, because it creates an image, a nice instant stereotype, of something I am most definitely not.

[Peregrin Toker]

As for the word 'bi', XaLEv, what other words are there?

Creamer is the only one I can think of, though I'm sure there are more.

I'm as straight as they come, but for some reason I feel slightly offended by the use of the word "creamer" to describe a bisexual.

Maybe I'm just as hypersensitive as ever.

[Enforcer Talen]

cant say I like creamer much either.

[XaLEv]

What is it about creamer you find objectionable?

[apocolypse]

I also disapprove of blacks who call themselves "nigger", etc, on the basic principle that if these words are offensive that nobody should use them.

Actually, ever since I heard of black people describing themselves as "niggers", I first thought it was slightly tongue-in-cheek....

However, some of these "self-proclaimed niggers" as I call them, apparently are quite serious about it.

Still, I have never found any rational explanation why people deliberately heap such derisive labels upon themselves.......

It's a particularly big mystery to me, since I have never gotten the opportunity to talk with a "Self-Proclaimed Nigger".

From what I understand, the reason that a group will use derogatory labels on the same group (aka, black ppl calling other black ppl niggahs, gay ppl calling other gay ppl fag or queer) is that by taking the word from the majority that uses it, you make it less hurtful. It's supposed to basically take the sting out of it and make it your own. Least that's what I've heard.

[kojikun]

I have a friend, SF, shes a lesbian and quite proud of it. She plays the bongos and sings a song called "I am a black dyke".

[Peregrin Toker]

What is it about creamer you find objectionable?

It just sounds really suspicious. And it has certain pervert implifications.

[Gil Hamilton]

Okay, so I don't know WHY it's offensive, it just IS. It's because it's been derogatory since before I was born, and still is. I don't know why "fag" is a bad word, but it is (and the only time I MIND being called one is when someone calls me a fag in anger). However, as per "lesbo," it's the same reason why you don't say "That's so gay!" around a gay person - because it takes a perfectly good word and puts it in a bad context.

But if you don't know why you are being offended by something, then you are being silly. If people are going to waste time being mad over a single word, then they should know why it makes them mad in the first place. Otherwise, people are getting their mad on for no reason. Words have history and don't mean anything without reference to that history. A word cannot be offense without a real rationale. "It just IS" isn't a real rationale, as it is circular logic. A real rationale would be "<insert word> is offensive because <insert explaination of why it's offensive>"

Like I said, it IS AND ISN'T BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT. If it is used derogatorily, it is in BAD context. Sometimes even a joke is bad context (most of the time, rather). It depends on who is saying it and how (frankly, I couldn't care less about most statements of such, but "lesbo" and "faggot" and "homo" are the few words I just don't like hearing). SO some of it is subjective, but you still have to be careful. Some gay people call straight people "breeders." How would you feel if I started calling you a breeder?

I could give a shit. You are going to have to do better than that if you want to offend me, since I'm very hard to offend by words alone. Besides, you are doing the same two things I described in my opening post as meaningless, IE claiming "It just is!" and a modifed version of the "Well, why is this offensive". I'm looking for an actual reason here. Since you admitted that you don't actually have a good reason, why are you arguing here?

[Gil Hamilton]

I generally disapprove of the use of the words "Lesbo" or "Dyke" by lesbians, and "fag" or "queer" by homosexuals in general. I also disapprove of blacks who call themselves "nigger", etc, on the basic principle that if these words are offensive that nobody should use them. They are offensive to me, and it bothers me that some people whom they are used derogatorily against take them as a badge of pride; however, I can attempt to stop that behaviour, and the use of the word in the standard derogatory fashion, like it was used in this thread, albeit unintentionally.

OK, good, but you haven't exactly explained why it is offensive in the first place. I'm looking for something like kojikins explaination of the origin of the word "faggot" as an insult here.

Plus let me reiterate:

• "It just is" is a circular argument, and therefore is useless (because it is short form of "Lesbo is offensive because it is offensive!")
  • "Well, why is <insert word> offensive?" or the modified form "How would you like it if I called you <insert word>?" are both useless, since they don't actually answer the question, but rather dodge away from it.
    
    So go on, why is "lesbo" offensive?

[Gil Hamilton]

Words are offensive because they offend: pure and simple. You don't have to have any real rationale behind it.

Yes you do. Words have histories and with those histories, they don't mean anything. Likewise, there must be a real explaination as to why such a word is offensive, or else people are just getting mad for no reason.

However, I don't give a flying fuck if someone calls me a dyke (lesbo is derogatory to me because it's a shortening of the word lesbian, without actaully becoming easier to say), unless of course they're employing it as a slur. Many (but not most) of my gay male friends IRL I happily call poofs (we don't use the word fag very often over here) mostly in joke but also for variety on of language.

How does shortening a word without making it easier to say make it offensive?

[Frank Hipper]

Did you find my argument more satisfactory, Gil?