someone else's debate

[Enforcer Talen]

Session Start (AIM - MdioticIoron:singles therapy): Fri Aug 01 22:35:49 2003
[01.08: 22:35:54] Mdiotic Ioron: God is my Superhero?
[01.08: 22:36:02] singles therapy: yes
[01.08: 22:36:16] Mdiotic Ioron: Alright... Tell me why you think that being gay is immoral
[01.08: 22:36:48] singles therapy: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
[01.08: 22:36:58] Mdiotic Ioron: have you read the rest of Leviticus?
[01.08: 22:37:15] singles therapy: which verses?
[01.08: 22:37:16] Mdiotic Ioron: tell me, do you also believe that Slavery is ok, if certain conditions are met?
[01.08: 22:37:17] Mdiotic Ioron: all of it
[01.08: 22:37:39] singles therapy: no i dont considering i'm jewish
[01.08: 22:37:58] Mdiotic Ioron: Alright
[01.08: 22:38:12] Mdiotic Ioron: according to the Bible, none are born without sin, am I not correct?
[01.08: 22:38:24] Mdiotic Ioron: what makes homosexuality so different from other sins, such as adultery, lying, etc
[01.08: 22:38:26] singles therapy: yes we inherit it
[01.08: 22:38:48] singles therapy: there is no difference they are all the same all wrong and equal
[01.08: 22:39:08] Mdiotic Ioron: so why focus so much on Homosexuality. Do you think Bush should make a law banning lying?
[01.08: 22:39:41] singles therapy: we all lie he himself would be arrested
[01.08: 22:39:52] singles therapy: because no one is perfect
[01.08: 22:40:01] Mdiotic Ioron: so homosexuality should be illegal because...
[01.08: 22:40:17] singles therapy: its wrong and can be prevented
[01.08: 22:40:25] Mdiotic Ioron: oh, and lying can't be preventeD?
[01.08: 22:40:38] singles therapy: no... i dont think so
[01.08: 22:40:48] Mdiotic Ioron: so lying isn't a choice
[01.08: 22:40:54] Mdiotic Ioron: is that what you're saying?
[01.08: 22:41:01] singles therapy: no
[01.08: 22:41:10] singles therapy: i say that no one can stop
[01.08: 22:41:15] singles therapy: yet sum try
[01.08: 22:41:32] Mdiotic Ioron: You believe homosexuality is a choice
[01.08: 22:41:33] Mdiotic Ioron: ?
[01.08: 22:41:41] singles therapy: yes i do
[01.08: 22:42:03] Mdiotic Ioron: despite the scientific studies stating otherwise
[01.08: 22:42:30] singles therapy: most scientists believe we came from monkeys... need i say more
[01.08: 22:42:43] Mdiotic Ioron: you have no idea what evolution is, don't even go there
[01.08: 22:42:54] singles therapy: i do
[01.08: 22:43:00] singles therapy: i have studied it
[01.08: 22:43:06] singles therapy: its all false
[01.08: 22:43:10] Mdiotic Ioron: Sheep, flies, etc with altered genes display homosexuality tendencies, the rest do not. Coincidence?
[01.08: 22:43:14] singles therapy: but thats oof the subject
[01.08: 22:43:21] Mdiotic Ioron: Oh, and this is repeated trials from various sources
[01.08: 22:43:50] singles therapy: animals dont sin they have no spirit
[01.08: 22:44:08] Mdiotic Ioron: Red herring, it shows that it's at least partially genetic
[01.08: 22:44:49] singles therapy: what makes you think a perfectly innocent child can be born gay?
[01.08: 22:44:59] Mdiotic Ioron: I thought that humans were born with sin
[01.08: 22:45:12] Mdiotic Ioron: scientific studies?
[01.08: 22:45:15] singles therapy: they are a sinful nature
[01.08: 22:46:12] singles therapy: innocent as in not trying to sin
[01.08: 22:46:12] Mdiotic Ioron: Take a look at (Link: http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html ... N=36746814
[01.08: 22:48:13] Mdiotic Ioron: Well?
[01.08: 22:48:37] singles therapy: ...which would you like me to look at
[01.08: 22:48:46] Mdiotic Ioron: the whole thing
[01.08: 22:49:10] singles therapy: that would take me awhile
[01.08: 22:49:12] Mdiotic Ioron: or I can quote an important paragraph
[01.08: 22:49:14] Mdiotic Ioron: "Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.
"
[01.08: 22:49:32] singles therapy: i highly disagree
[01.08: 22:49:44] Mdiotic Ioron: WhY?
[01.08: 22:49:54] singles therapy: i think that other gay ppl persuade young children to be gay
[01.08: 22:50:02] Mdiotic Ioron: (Link: http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relag ... vgene.html
[01.08: 22:50:08] singles therapy: because sum1 tried on me
[01.08: 22:50:14] Mdiotic Ioron: I suppose that gay flies persuade other flies to be gay too?
[01.08: 22:50:28] singles therapy: they are flies
[01.08: 22:50:35] Mdiotic Ioron: I might have to go soon, if I stop responding, I probably got disconned
[01.08: 22:50:38] Mdiotic Ioron: So?
[01.08: 22:50:41] singles therapy: they are insects containing no spirit
[01.08: 22:50:47] Mdiotic Ioron: my point still stands, it's genetically influences
[01.08: 22:51:01] singles therapy: no spirit no sin
[01.08: 22:51:30] Mdiotic Ioron: alright, tell me, then why are the flies having homosexual tendencies?
[01.08: 22:51:43] Mdiotic Ioron: with the introduction of an altered gene
[01.08: 22:52:03] singles therapy: how do you know that they experimented on first
[01.08: 22:52:12] singles therapy: ppl lie to prove their point
[01.08: 22:52:19] Mdiotic Ioron: this is Stanford
[01.08: 22:52:24] Mdiotic Ioron: they actually DO experiments
[01.08: 22:52:37] singles therapy: exactly expiements
[01.08: 22:52:40] Mdiotic Ioron: I can dig up more sources
[01.08: 22:52:44] Mdiotic Ioron: that say the same thing
[01.08: 22:52:58] singles therapy: by non christian scientists
[01.08: 22:53:09] singles therapy: say harvard
[01.08: 22:53:12] Mdiotic Ioron: oh, so only Christian ones are correct>
[01.08: 22:53:19] Mdiotic Ioron: that's completely incorrect
[01.08: 22:53:20] singles therapy: or others that say i'm part monkey
[01.08: 22:53:31] Mdiotic Ioron: religion has nothing to do with how valid they are as scientists
[01.08: 22:53:46] singles therapy: yes but if they have a bias it does
[01.08: 22:53:56] Mdiotic Ioron: NOBODY says that, humans and monkeys had a common ancestor, humans didn't descend from monkeys
[01.08: 22:54:01] Mdiotic Ioron: and the Christian side doesn't have bias?
[01.08: 22:54:25] singles therapy: the only bias i see is whats right
[01.08: 22:54:43] singles therapy: everyone has a bias some ppl are rite and others are wrong
[01.08: 22:55:03] Mdiotic Ioron: bull, all you're doing is attacking a source
[01.08: 22:55:10] Mdiotic Ioron: you still haven't proved WHY homosexuality is wrong
[01.08: 22:55:27] singles therapy: you havent proved why its right
[01.08: 22:55:43] Mdiotic Ioron: I don't have to prove why it's right, I didn't say it was
[01.08: 22:55:46] Mdiotic Ioron: I'm saying it's not wrong
[01.08: 22:55:50] Mdiotic Ioron: and that would be your burden of proof
[01.08: 22:55:57] Mdiotic Ioron: since YOU stated that it was immoral
[01.08: 22:56:38] singles therapy: because God made adam and eve
[01.08: 22:56:41] singles therapy: not adam and steve
[01.08: 22:56:55] singles therapy: and if its not wrong then simply what is it
[01.08: 22:56:59] Mdiotic Ioron: yeah, and God has committed genocide
[01.08: 22:57:10] Mdiotic Ioron: can you prove why it's wrong without using the Bible or Torah?
[01.08: 22:57:30] Mdiotic Ioron: I will tell you right now I'm atheist, I don't believe in any God or Holy book
[01.08: 22:57:37] singles therapy: why would i need to because everything in there is right
[01.08: 22:57:46] Mdiotic Ioron: have you proved the bible is right?
[01.08: 22:57:48] Mdiotic Ioron: No
[01.08: 22:57:56] Mdiotic Ioron: I do not believe in the Bible
[01.08: 22:58:03] Mdiotic Ioron: it is not a valid source of morality fo rme
[01.08: 22:58:25] singles therapy: it hasnt been prooved wrong
[01.08: 22:58:30] singles therapy: proved*
[01.08: 22:58:48] Mdiotic Ioron: yes it has, there are dozens if not hundreds of contradictions
[01.08: 22:58:59] Mdiotic Ioron: I don't have to prove you wrong, you have to prove it right
[01.08: 22:59:06] Mdiotic Ioron: since it's your source of information
[01.08: 22:59:47] singles therapy: do tell me where there is a contradiction
[01.08: 23:00:04] Mdiotic Ioron: ok
[01.08: 23:00:04] singles therapy: every source of history and wars have been proved right
[01.08: 23:00:10] Mdiotic Ioron: BS
[01.08: 23:00:14] Mdiotic Ioron: (Link: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c ... ontra.html
[01.08: 23:00:41] Mdiotic Ioron: just because something is not proven incorrect does not mean it is correct
[01.08: 23:00:43] singles therapy: simple
[01.08: 23:01:06] singles therapy: it sez God created everything around the world
[01.08: 23:01:36] singles therapy: read carefully then it sez then god creating it over in the garden of eden to show adam his power
[01.08: 23:01:45] singles therapy: and that he was God
[01.08: 23:01:55] Mdiotic Ioron: good, you only have another 900 to go
[01.08: 23:02:03] Mdiotic Ioron: I'll spare you having to explain all that
[01.08: 23:02:13] Mdiotic Ioron: prove to me why homosexuality is wrong WITHOUT the Bible or Torah
[01.08: 23:02:28] singles therapy: simple its sick
[01.08: 23:02:30] *** singles therapy signed on at Fri Aug 01 23:02:30 2003.
[01.08: 23:02:39] Mdiotic Ioron: is that your only justification?
[01.08: 23:02:42] Mdiotic Ioron: You don't like it?
[01.08: 23:03:11] singles therapy: it doesnt matter my only opinion facts are that matter
[01.08: 23:03:31] Mdiotic Ioron: You said it was disjusting, that was an opinion
[01.08: 23:03:45] singles therapy: morals are all the same there is no such thing as my truth and ur truth truth is always the same
[01.08: 23:04:05] Mdiotic Ioron: too bad I don't believe in your Truth
[01.08: 23:04:46] singles therapy: you mean the truth it doesnt matter whether you or anyone believes in it its still wrong
[01.08: 23:05:08] singles therapy: murder is wrong sum1 else mite think its ko but it will always be wrong
[01.08: 23:05:14] singles therapy: ok*
[01.08: 23:05:26] Mdiotic Ioron: tell me why absolute morality is true
[01.08: 23:05:54] singles therapy: it doesnt work any other way
[01.08: 23:06:01] singles therapy: thats why we have laws
[01.08: 23:06:11] Mdiotic Ioron: no, we have laws to prevent people from hurting others
[01.08: 23:06:27] singles therapy: which are morals
[01.08: 23:06:38] Mdiotic Ioron: Laws != morals
[01.08: 23:06:51] Mdiotic Ioron: using your logic, laws in Saudi Arabia are morals as well
[01.08: 23:07:18] singles therapy: our laws are based on morals on the Bible
[01.08: 23:07:37] Mdiotic Ioron: no they're not, every culture had laws against killing and stealing
[01.08: 23:07:40] singles therapy: Did Adam die on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? yes he did spiritually
[01.08: 23:08:11] singles therapy: srry to interrupt i felt to answer that
[01.08: 23:08:44] Mdiotic Ioron: I g2g now
[01.08: 23:08:47] Mdiotic Ioron: finish this later?
[01.08: 23:08:50] singles therapy: ok
[01.08: 23:09:06] Mdiotic Ioron: bye
[01.08: 23:09:15] singles therapy: ciao
[01.08: 23:09:15] *** Auto-response sent to singles therapy: I am currently away from the computer.
[01.08: 23:09:18] singles therapy: God Bless
Session Close (singles therapy): Fri Aug 01 23:35:01 2003


Session Start (AIM - MdioticIoron:singles therapy): Fri Aug 01 23:37:35 2003
Session Close (singles therapy): Fri Aug 01 23:37:41 2003


Session Start (AIM - MdioticIoron:singles therapy): Sat Aug 02 22:31:44 2003
[02.08: 22:32:17] Mdiotic Ioron: hey... You want to continue where we left off yesterday?
[02.08: 22:32:50] singles therapy: i've come to find morals difficult to prove w/out God because they are based on him
[02.08: 22:33:11] Mdiotic Ioron: uh, no
[02.08: 22:33:15] Mdiotic Ioron: tell me, what is the point of morals?
[02.08: 22:33:34] singles therapy: so that we mite do right
[02.08: 22:33:39] singles therapy: and not sin
[02.08: 22:33:58] Mdiotic Ioron: Why do you think that every culture has laws against murder?
[02.08: 22:34:04] Mdiotic Ioron: To protect people from harm
[02.08: 22:34:12] singles therapy: yes
[02.08: 22:34:15] Mdiotic Ioron: against stealing?
[02.08: 22:34:21] singles therapy: its sin
[02.08: 22:34:25] Mdiotic Ioron: so people aren't deprived of their property they earned
[02.08: 22:34:30] singles therapy: its wrong and against good morals
[02.08: 22:34:35] Mdiotic Ioron: now what about homosexuality?
[02.08: 22:34:38] Mdiotic Ioron: where is the harm in that?
[02.08: 22:34:41] singles therapy: its wrong
[02.08: 22:34:46] singles therapy: HIV
[02.08: 22:34:48] singles therapy: hell
[02.08: 22:34:48] Mdiotic Ioron: but WHY?
[02.08: 22:35:03] Mdiotic Ioron: that's a stupid answer, heterosexual people can get AIDS too
[02.08: 22:35:13] Mdiotic Ioron: it's not exclusively homosexual
[02.08: 22:35:25] singles therapy: true but more of the gay ppl get it
[02.08: 22:35:38] Mdiotic Ioron: no, most people HIV positive are heterosexual
[02.08: 22:35:49] Mdiotic Ioron: and most get it from unprotected heterosexual sex
[02.08: 22:36:41] Mdiotic Ioron: hell isn't a good enough answer, you've yet to prove it exists and that homosexuals will go there
[02.08: 22:36:46] singles therapy: i think its wrong do to my beliefs i have a strong narrow minded bias
[02.08: 22:36:59] Mdiotic Ioron: but WHY is it wrong?
[02.08: 22:37:02] Mdiotic Ioron: what harm is it causing?
[02.08: 22:37:08] singles therapy: because God sed so
[02.08: 22:37:19] Mdiotic Ioron: and WHY does God think it's wrong?
[02.08: 22:37:20] singles therapy: separation from Him
[02.08: 22:37:33] singles therapy: because he made it differently
[02.08: 22:37:46] singles therapy: why do you think it is ok
[02.08: 22:37:58] Mdiotic Ioron: it's a sin just like any other, there should be no difference between it and other sins
[02.08: 22:38:06] Mdiotic Ioron: because there's no harm in it
[02.08: 22:38:16] singles therapy: there is harm in all sins
[02.08: 22:38:18] Mdiotic Ioron: it's an act between two consenting people
[02.08: 22:38:28] Mdiotic Ioron: what harm?
[02.08: 22:38:34] singles therapy: punishment
[02.08: 22:38:44] Mdiotic Ioron: Going to hell?
[02.08: 22:38:55] singles therapy: not necesarily
[02.08: 22:39:10] Mdiotic Ioron: That's circular logic, it's bad because you go to hell, and because you go to hell, it's bad.
[02.08: 22:39:48] singles therapy: no
[02.08: 22:39:54] singles therapy: not all ppl go to hell
[02.08: 22:40:04] Mdiotic Ioron: thankfully
[02.08: 22:40:14] singles therapy: if you could only go to heaven by perfection then no one could go
[02.08: 22:40:30] Mdiotic Ioron: which is why Jesus came to die for our sins, etc
[02.08: 22:40:31] Mdiotic Ioron: I know
[02.08: 22:40:35] singles therapy: thats why jesus died on the cross and rose again because he loves us
[02.08: 22:41:11] Mdiotic Ioron: you still haven't shown what harm homosexuality does
[02.08: 22:41:25] singles therapy: its sin
[02.08: 22:41:30] singles therapy: sin is evil
[02.08: 22:41:44] singles therapy: sin is separtion
[02.08: 22:41:44] Mdiotic Ioron: what harm does it do to you?
[02.08: 22:41:52] singles therapy: and separation is death
[02.08: 22:42:05] singles therapy: it keeps u from God
[02.08: 22:42:22] Mdiotic Ioron: let me repeat, what harm does it do to you?
[02.08: 22:42:46] singles therapy: keeps you from God
[02.08: 22:42:54] Mdiotic Ioron: to YOU, not the person committing it
[02.08: 22:43:18] singles therapy: it ruins innocence
[02.08: 22:43:25] singles therapy: and purity
[02.08: 22:43:46] Mdiotic Ioron: so basically you don't like it
[02.08: 22:44:23] singles therapy: i could care less i dont like it because God doesnt like it
[02.08: 22:44:45] Mdiotic Ioron: I don't like a lot of things, but that's no excuse to have a law banning it
[02.08: 22:45:17] singles therapy: do you like murder
[02.08: 22:45:30] Mdiotic Ioron: no, because it harms others
[02.08: 22:45:33] Mdiotic Ioron: false analogy
[02.08: 22:45:34] singles therapy: cuz if you dont there is no reason for a law against it
[02.08: 22:45:49] Mdiotic Ioron: murder harms others, homosexuality doesn't
[02.08: 22:45:57] singles therapy: yes it does
[02.08: 22:46:02] Mdiotic Ioron: how?
[02.08: 22:46:35] singles therapy: imagine a lil boy seeing to gay ppl that ruins his innocence and now he is exposed to thinking that its ok
[02.08: 22:46:42] singles therapy: i know it happened to me
[02.08: 22:47:27] Mdiotic Ioron: imaging a lil boy seeing to religious fanatics runing his innocence and now he is exposed to thinking that its ok
[02.08: 22:47:50] singles therapy: what relion
[02.08: 22:47:54] singles therapy: religion*
[02.08: 22:48:00] Mdiotic Ioron: any religion can go too far
[02.08: 22:48:21] singles therapy: christianity is not a religion but a relationship a frendship with jesus
[02.08: 22:49:07] Mdiotic Ioron: lets stop straying away from the topic, my point still stands. Are you physically being harmed by homosexuality?
[02.08: 22:49:32] singles therapy: how does it help you
[02.08: 22:49:38] singles therapy: how is it ok
[02.08: 22:49:42] Mdiotic Ioron: Just answer the question
[02.08: 22:49:47] singles therapy: i did
[02.08: 22:50:05] Mdiotic Ioron: no you didn't.
[02.08: 22:50:08] Mdiotic Ioron: Are you physically being harmed by homosexuality?
[02.08: 22:50:17] Mdiotic Ioron: Yes or no. It's a simple question
[02.08: 22:50:26] singles therapy: are you improved by it
[02.08: 22:50:36] singles therapy: does it make our world a better place
[02.08: 22:50:46] Mdiotic Ioron: stop doding the question and answer
[02.08: 22:50:53] Mdiotic Ioron: YES or NO
[02.08: 22:50:55] singles therapy: i did
[02.08: 22:51:08] Mdiotic Ioron: this is binary, it's one or the other.
[02.08: 22:51:09] Mdiotic Ioron: YES OR NO
[02.08: 22:51:28] singles therapy: i answered ur question with my own
[02.08: 22:51:52] Mdiotic Ioron: YES OR NO
[02.08: 22:52:00] Mdiotic Ioron: there are only TWO OPTIONS
[02.08: 22:52:02] Mdiotic Ioron: PICK ONE
[02.08: 22:52:20] singles therapy: its funny u say that
[02.08: 22:52:33] singles therapy: there are only 2 options in many things
[02.08: 22:52:45] Mdiotic Ioron: stop trying to dodge the question
[02.08: 22:52:46] singles therapy: such as life
[02.08: 22:52:48] Mdiotic Ioron: ANSWER, YES OR NO
[02.08: 22:52:50] singles therapy: i'm not
[02.08: 22:53:01] singles therapy: its a personal issue
[02.08: 22:53:08] Mdiotic Ioron: concession accepted
[02.08: 22:53:16] singles therapy: ty

[Durandal]

Locked.