debate

[Enforcer Talen]

Enforcer Talen says:
you read the entire bible?
Llama's Peach says:
i would if i wasn't so lazy
Enforcer Talen says:
heh
Llama's Peach says:
i hear you know quite a lot about it though
Enforcer Talen says:
yes, I do
Llama's Peach says:
cool
Enforcer Talen says:
read kg sometime, the older posts
Llama's Peach says:
ya
Enforcer Talen says:
its one of my hobbies
Llama's Peach says:
cool
Enforcer Talen says:
hehe. . . I read the bible and became an atheist
Llama's Peach says:
lol
Llama's Peach says:
ironic
Enforcer Talen says:
true, tho
Enforcer Talen says:
theres some verses in there you would not believe
Llama's Peach says:
*shrug* pehaps, perhaps not
Enforcer Talen says:
heh
Llama's Peach says:
well. actually i do find some of the old testament disagreeable
Enforcer Talen says:
heh, yes
Llama's Peach says:
mostly the parts where god tells women to submit themselves and such
Enforcer Talen says:
and to marry their rapists
Llama's Peach says:
indeed
Enforcer Talen says:
key point, that
Enforcer Talen says:
and, course, jesus says the old law still stands
Enforcer Talen says:
its my opinion that christians woul be better without the bible
Llama's Peach says:
i dunno. most of the reason i am christian is because, well knowing that god is watching my actions and i will be judged accordingly keeps me from doing stupid crap
Enforcer Talen says:
only reason? you dont have an independent morality? -debate mode-
Llama's Peach says:
i never said the only reason i said most
Llama's Peach says:
and i do have independent morality
Enforcer Talen says:
which takes priority, your morality or the bible?
Llama's Peach says:
it's just.. i'm lackig in areas
Llama's Peach says:
both are even.. the bible says not to set vile things before my eys. so, i don't look at porn, before i was christian, i was a porn freak.. not the greatest legacy
Enforcer Talen says:
I didnt look at porn till I turned 18. I dont see a problem with it, as long as you dont get obsessed.

the bible also says slavery is ok, as is genocide.
Llama's Peach says:
the old testament or the new testament?
Enforcer Talen says:
doesnt matter. luke 16:17 says the old law stands
Llama's Peach says:
ya..
Llama's Peach says:
i don't know enough of the bible to argue it..
Enforcer Talen says:
I do =p

god orders genocide down in the old testament, he commits genoicde personally, and he plans to do it in the future as well
Enforcer Talen says:
to folow such a philisophy while unplugging your brain is morally repugnant
Llama's Peach says:
it could be for our own good, just as it's better to discipline your children then let them grow into being psycho rapists
Enforcer Talen says:
-gestures- certainly. discipline is everything. but you dont kill your kids when they disobey you. god recommends it
Llama's Peach says:
hmm
Llama's Peach says:
like i said though.. i don't know a lot about the bible to argue it
Enforcer Talen says:
read it its informative
Llama's Peach says:
ya ya ya...
Enforcer Talen says:
I took 3 evenings and read 3k verses
Enforcer Talen says:
lot of stuff, there
Llama's Peach says:
indeed
Llama's Peach says:
do you believe god is real? or a figment of our imaginations?
Enforcer Talen says:
the second
Llama's Peach says:
ok jw
Enforcer Talen says:
no worries
Enforcer Talen says:
give me one miracle and Ill change my mind
Enforcer Talen says:
mark 16:18 would be good
Llama's Peach says:
define.. deadly
Enforcer Talen says:
the bleach under my sink
Enforcer Talen says:
draino
Llama's Peach says:
ahh
Enforcer Talen says:
you can survive, it prolly
Enforcer Talen says:
I want to see you without hurt
Llama's Peach says:
maybe that miracle has been done?

somewhere in KG tere is a post of morphine's having to do with some kid pouring cleaner into hios teacher's tea, the teacher was relatively unharmed if i remember correctly
Enforcer Talen says:
3rd, 4th hand report? thats gossip. I want a miracle caught on tv
Enforcer Talen says:
part the seas
Enforcer Talen says:
make 5000 loaves
Llama's Peach says:
does the sink count?
Enforcer Talen says:
=p
Llama's Peach says:
how big do you want the loaves?
Llama's Peach says:

Enforcer Talen says:
subway size
Llama's Peach says:
hmm is this about the time i'm supposed to start incessantly yelling "jesus loves you" over and over again, i hear that tactic works well rofl
Enforcer Talen says:
and then I say concession accepted
Llama's Peach says:
yes yes
Enforcer Talen says:

Llama's Peach says:
are oyu checking me out now ?
Llama's Peach says:
o_0
Enforcer Talen says:
oh, and, according to mark 7:27. . .he doesnt
Enforcer Talen says:
checking you out?
Llama's Peach says:
yes, boght and sold
Llama's Peach says:
bought*
Llama's Peach says:
hmm
Llama's Peach says:
what did you mean about mark 7:27?
Llama's Peach says:
i didn't quite understand
Enforcer Talen says:
For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
7:26
The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

7:27
But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet
Enforcer Talen says:
to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

7:28
And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

7:29
And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Enforcer Talen says:
ok, because she's a syro, he calls her a dog, yes?
Llama's Peach says:
erm.. he did?
Llama's Peach says:
sorry i'm tired
Enforcer Talen says:
7:27
Enforcer Talen says:
let the children first be filled - for it is not meet to take the childrens bread and cast it unto the dogs
Enforcer Talen says:
ie, the children are the isrealis
Enforcer Talen says:
the dogs are syro
Enforcer Talen says:
yes?
Llama's Peach says:
i think he was more reffering to

don't take the children's bread feed it to the dogs, not necessarily calling her a dog
Enforcer Talen says:
she asks for healing, and is a syro
Enforcer Talen says:
he says, not right to give bread
Enforcer Talen says:
if bread is healing
Enforcer Talen says:
then dog is syro
Llama's Peach says:
and hmm
Llama's Peach says:
my bible's study thing says that jesus was reffering to actual dogs, not the syro as a dog
Enforcer Talen says:
and that relates to the situation how?
Enforcer Talen says:
woman: plz heal me
Enforcer Talen says:
jesus: see that canine over there? Im not feeding him
Enforcer Talen says:
woman: but even dogs get crumbs.
Enforcer Talen says:
jesus: your right. so instead of feeding that canine, Ill heal your daughter
Enforcer Talen says:
wtf?
Llama's Peach says:
or perhaps he was relating it as to how the jews called them dogs, not calling her a dog himself
Enforcer Talen says:
and jesus was a jew, no?
Llama's Peach says:
he was saying that even the "dogs" get bits of food
Enforcer Talen says:
yes. so the chick gets bits of healing
Llama's Peach says:
yes
Llama's Peach says:
and jesus was a jew, yes, but that did not mean he was like the jews
Enforcer Talen says:
ok. if hes not using their attitudes, why is he using their words?
Enforcer Talen says:
yes, the jews call you this
Enforcer Talen says:
I dont believe it myself
Enforcer Talen says:
but Im going to go with the crowd and call you dog
Llama's Peach says:
no, he was using it as a.. what's the word,, metaphor i think

as in, i usually travel around healing the jews *as in the jews are at the table* but even though you are considered a dog, bits and crumbs still fall and you are fed
Enforcer Talen says:
-gestures- yes. a metaphor. jews are the children - the syro are dogs. yes?
Llama's Peach says:
the jews believed so, but jesus did not
Enforcer Talen says:
provide proof
Llama's Peach says:
well he healed the woman, so he must have had some respect, back in that time dogs were pretty much wild scavengers, not much respect is gained by being a wild scavenger yes??
Enforcer Talen says:
ok. so, he respects her - but less then an isreali?
Enforcer Talen says:
yes?
Llama's Peach says:
not really
Llama's Peach says:
he only used the dog thing as a metaphor, do you think the woman would be happy after jesus called her a dog?
Enforcer Talen says:
would you be willing to be called a dog if your daughter was healed?
Llama's Peach says:
depends, if the supposed "holy son of god himself" calls youa dog, you aren't going to believe or like him very much, different things offend different people.. but jesus did not call her a dog, he only used it as a metaphor
Enforcer Talen says:
if I had a daughter and she was sick, Id be submitting to any verbal abuse for her to be healed
Enforcer Talen says:
yes?
Llama's Peach says:
i guess... but that still does not prove jesus called her a dog
Enforcer Talen says:
ok, its a metaphor
Enforcer Talen says:
children represent isrealis - yes?
Llama's Peach says:
yes
Enforcer Talen says:
he heals isrealis often with np
Enforcer Talen says:
ok
Enforcer Talen says:
bread represents healing
Enforcer Talen says:
yes?
Llama's Peach says:
yes
Enforcer Talen says:
ok
Enforcer Talen says:
so - he doesnt want to heal her cuz shes not isreal
Enforcer Talen says:
yes?
Llama's Peach says:
no
Enforcer Talen says:
then why does he procrastinate?
Enforcer Talen says:
why does she have to ask for crumbs?
Llama's Peach says:
he waited until lazerus died did he not?
Llama's Peach says:
and he still geave the healing yes?
Enforcer Talen says:
was lazarus isreali? did he arrive before he died?
Llama's Peach says:
lazerus was israeli i believe, and he arrived after he died
Enforcer Talen says:
proof?
Enforcer Talen says:
iirc, the body was rotting
Llama's Peach says:
yes
Enforcer Talen says:
then its dead
Llama's Peach says:
yes
Llama's Peach says:
but he rose him from the grave did he not?

he was merely testing the woman's faith
Enforcer Talen says:
yes - he healed laz without a test.

he tested her, no? he compared her to dogs?
Llama's Peach says:
he used a metaphor, only comparing her to dogs because that is how the jews felt about the gentiles, he did not condone it himself
Enforcer Talen says:
proof
Llama's Peach says:
prove to me he did, and that my theory is that he used it as a metaphor, talking about how the children usually get bread, but the gentiles don't, and how the jews call them dogs, and the gentiles (the "dogs") don't usually get a whole lot of healing, but he was going to heal her anyways

Enforcer Talen says:
after calling her dog. there is nothing that says his views were any different from the typical jew on this matter
Llama's Peach says:
if a dog was sick, and you didn't have the money to heal it, would you not just put it down?

jesus showed that he was using a metaphor by healing her,he could have just as easily struck her down instead of wasting energy healing, yes?
Enforcer Talen says:
your stalling. christ has infinite energy - he's god. he is making no threats about putting her down, only saying he shouldnt heal her when he is here to heal isrealis
Llama's Peach says:
but alas, he was in a mortal body, which means he had to sleep, he felt pain and he got tired, and ultimately he could die just like any other mortal, yes?
Llama's Peach says:
he showed his love for everyone by healing the people thought ot be dogs i'm sure this didn't make the jews happy
Llama's Peach says:
to*
Enforcer Talen says:
actually, he claimed youd have to hate your family to follow him and kill people who didnt follow him. lots of love there.

we are looking at this lovely metaphor - if the children are the isrealis and the bread is healing, and a syro is talking to him asking for healing, what does she have to be? when she says even dogs get crumbs, she is healed.
Llama's Peach says:
where does he command us to kill people that don't follow him?
Llama's Peach says:
in the new testament
Enforcer Talen says:
give me 2 min.

and, answer the previous metaphor
Llama's Peach says:
ok
Llama's Peach says:
ok, so she begs him, and he says no, so she continues, and says

hey, even the lowerclassmen get bread, why not give me some eh??
but see if jesus intially healed her, this verse wouldn't mean much now would it?? he needed eher to say "everyone gets some bread" because then this verse couldn't live up to it's potentiala

and.. that' probably didn't make sense, because i'm tired at the moment
Enforcer Talen says:
o_O why not initially heal her? why go through the farce?
Llama's Peach says:
because it would not be noticed as much if jesus went ok, voila you're healed

maybe it's more appealing that way, but she had to say, well what the heck>?!?! even dogs get food, and then jesus was like, yep, now i can have that put into the bible, thanks, here's some healing, i cannot truly say as to what his intent was, as you cannot either, unless you knew 100% how jesus worked
Enforcer Talen says:
wouldnt be noticed? poof, your healed! that is noticeable! he had crowds followin him!

its a metaphor, we're not talking about dogs, the canines. if children are isrealis, then dogs have to be syros. no one else in the story
Llama's Peach says:
your opinion... we are entitled to have different views.. you may think i'm wrong, i may think you're wrong.. but anyways.. my debating skills aren't taht great
Llama's Peach says:
so.. i conceed for the time being
Enforcer Talen says:
ok.

*following* that verse, if he bases respect on location -
Enforcer Talen says:
ie, syros are dogs, isrealis are gods children
Enforcer Talen says:
which, btw, goes perfect with the old testament
Llama's Peach says:
*shrug* like i said, i don't know enough of the bible to argue it
Enforcer Talen says:
read it

if you base respect on location, then you are a racist. feel free to find bible verses in conflict with it - there arent too many
Llama's Peach says:
a'ight, but you choose to see things your way, and i choose to see things my way, it doesn't mean either of us are wrong, but it's our own individuality
Enforcer Talen says:
heh. if you dont have verses backing you, your wrong.
Llama's Peach says:
if i said my best friend died, but i didn't have a bible verse to back it, am i still wrong?
Llama's Peach says:
ack, freaking mosquitoes are owning me
Enforcer Talen says:
if we're talking christian theology, if you dont have a bible verse to back you up, your wrong
Llama's Peach says:
then i don't go with the basic christian theology
Llama's Peach says:
and maybe the basic christian theology is wrong, and mine is right.. maybe mis-interpretations were made during the founding of the basic christian theology? who knows? not i.. not you
Enforcer Talen says:
well, acutally, I know a great deal about early christian church. there are a whole bunch of myths tacked on.

but, if you are a christian, the bible would have to be the highest law
Llama's Peach says:
the bible could have been altered, prove to me taht it hasn't, prove to me that it was translated from israeli (or whatever language it was originally in) into english perfectly
Enforcer Talen says:
your taking my side. I think the bible is nonsense
Enforcer Talen says:
christians, generally, dont
Llama's Peach says:
i never said it was nonsense
Llama's Peach says:
i said that things could be mis-interpreted
Enforcer Talen says:
if it could be mistranslated and misinterpreted with myths tacked on to convert the heathens, why believe the more absurd parts of the bible
Enforcer Talen says:
feeding 5000? doesnt happe
Enforcer Talen says:
*n
Llama's Peach says:
who knows, unless you can prove it did not happen, then it's possible it did, right?
Enforcer Talen says:
extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence
Enforcer Talen says:
I dont claim martians have landed cuz I have no proof
Enforcer Talen says:
its possible, tho
Enforcer Talen says:
prove they didnt
Llama's Peach says:
*shrug* if there isn't enough proof to convict someone for murder, is it always true the murder was not commited by that person?
Enforcer Talen says:
in this metaphor, you are claiming he did murder - you claim bible is true. burden of proof is on you.
Llama's Peach says:
ya.. but.. like i said. i'm done debating for the night and i don't know enough of the bible, even though i should
Enforcer Talen says:
alrighty

[Dark Hellion]

whoopdeefucking-doo Talen.
These where fun and entertaining when they were one liners of fundy stupidity, now they are multipage, boring ass posts that do nothing but give you +1 posts.
Shut up please. Leave SLAM to people that want to discuss SLAM, put this shit in the HOS.

[Enforcer Talen]

o_O alrighty.

[kojikun]

You were checking out his arse? Right on!