Level of force for pacifying the Alpha Quadrant?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-22 08:01pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Conscription would likely work in small, sector conflicts. I think it would be better if they were offered amenities instead of being drafted, though. Again, this is analogous to the Roman method of conquering natives. The best method would probably be droid armies. Droids really aren't terrible when compared with living troops, and they would still have firepower benefits over SF soldiers. They would also almost certainly have relatively good survivability when hit with phaser fire, and other weapons in Trek, which appear to be designed to kill living soldiers but not metallic ones.

Nice way to kill sporadic resistance: overrun it with units you don't care about losing.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » 2002-09-22 10:17pm

1 Executor SSD

12 ISD's

100 assorted figates and light cruisers.

support vessels, several mobile shipyards, and a few mining and construction vessels

Find a nice out of the way planets, set up shop, and then go before each group with an invitation to jon the empire. Friendly if at all possible... if they decide not to... well, we just wipe out their military forces and ask again... if they still refuse... turn a uninhabited planet in thier home system into molten slag... next wipe out any and all planetary defences with a few quick strikes... if they still don't listen, kill a minor colony, park the fleet over their homeworld adn give an ultimatium... and follow through if they refuse...

repeat until everyone is either dead or have surrendered/joined.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-22 10:22pm

Guerrillas can't win if a major conventional military power is absolutely ruthless. The Empire is, and should quite easily pacify the alpha quadrant through the unrestrained use of force. I figure a couple dozen frigates could take care of the Federation.

Stormtrooper THX-1138 · Post by **Stormtrooper THX-1138** » 2002-09-23 01:44am

Two words: Death Star.

Which is a more efficient use of force; a protracted series of running battles which consume time and resources (even though the eventual outcome is inevitable) , including a possible resistance even after the collapse of the Federation's formal military structure? An annoyance , to be sure, but it was just such an "annoyance" that ended up causing the debacle at Endor.

Or a simple demonstration of power on a good-size population center, followed by perhaps one more , to drive the point home.Surrender, immediately, or die.Resistance can and will be punished, up to and including the destruction of an entire world.There is no option, you have no choice.Resistance, to rip off a phrase, really IS futile.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-23 04:18am

Stormtrooper THX-1138 wrote:Or a simple demonstration of power on a good-size population center, followed by perhaps one more , to drive the point home.Surrender, immediately, or die.Resistance can and will be punished, up to and including the destruction of an entire world.There is no option, you have no choice.Resistance, to rip off a phrase, really IS futile.

Yeah, but you can do the same thing with a dozen ISDs. And such a fleet would likely consume less resources during its operative lifespan than the DS will in a single hour.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-23 05:36am

All I need is a ESSD, with a Quantum Resonance Torp launcher and 700 or so torpedoes, buh bye every last major world in the AQ

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-23 05:45am

That would be known as destroying and not pacifying the Alpha Quadrant, I understand you revealing in murder though you do wear the Cog afterall

.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-23 05:47am

Well the reeling survivors would not dare strike at me, there are still thousands of worlds left.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-23 05:53am

Worlds you must now build up since they are tiny - seems wasteful to me, not to mention is going to cause even greater Rebel defections.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-23 06:04am

TheDarkling wrote:Worlds you must now build up since they are tiny - seems wasteful to me, not to mention is going to cause even greater Rebel defections.

Pah, I'll just nuke those small worlds back to the stone-age, then I'll set myself up as a god, then I'll build a network of hypergates between the delerict worlds so there will be no reason to build space ships.

Then I'll create a semi-religious dark-age society(kinda like in LEXX) with me as its god, it would be cool, it would be like in the 14th century, but with hitech equipment here and there, and I would have an order of holy knights in special lightmetal armor wielding lightsabers.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-09-23 06:40am

Put the equivalent of 1 stardestroyer in orbit of all the major inhabited planets plus garrison troops on the ground.

Of course a suitable reserve force that is free roaming will also be required for hunting down stragglers and pirates, and to follow up on any remote systems to exmaine for resistance.(or whatever)

With 150 worlsd for the Feds, I would say a force of 180-200 stardestroyer equivalents is a start.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-23 06:59am

TheDarkling wrote:Worlds you must now build up since they are tiny - seems wasteful to me, not to mention is going to cause even greater Rebel defections.

Gotta agree here. The larger worlds are practically all that matters - if you waste them, you're pretty much back to raw materials, territory and slaves.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-23 07:02am

Eleas wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:Worlds you must now build up since they are tiny - seems wasteful to me, not to mention is going to cause even greater Rebel defections.
Gotta agree here. The larger worlds are practically all that matters - if you waste them, you're pretty much back to raw materials, territory and slaves.

Ofcourse I am trying to recreate a society from the ground up, I want a medieval society mixed with modern technology, I'm going for a bit WH40k spirit in my new empire.

Admiral Griffith · Post by **Admiral Griffith** » 2002-09-23 07:21am

I'd say you need one ESD to destroy the AQ, and one SSD backed up with 5 ISDs, 10 Nebulon Bs and 20 Lancers to control it.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-23 07:45am

One ISD per World Is sufficent,

If you can slap an LTL within two feet of any target you want, Rebelions are not that big of a problem

Stormtrooper THX-1138 · Post by **Stormtrooper THX-1138** » 2002-09-23 11:23am

Eh, I don't know.Maybe I'm giving the Federation too much credit, but somehow I think "We just lost a population center to an orbital bombardment" is less absolutely terrifying than "Andoria... its gone. Just...gone." Or maybe I'm just trigger happy with the ol Superlaser *grin*

And while its an unpleasant truth, I still must point out that the Empire had the capability to plant a wide variety of TLs anywhere it wanted to in its own galaxy, and this fact proved to be only a mild deterrent to Rebellion in the long term.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-23 11:34am

And while its an unpleasant truth, I still must point out that the Empire had the capability to plant a wide variety of TLs anywhere it wanted to in its own galaxy, and this fact proved to be only a mild deterrent to Rebellion in the long term.

Not realy, your forggeting how big the SW Galaxy is and all the places they have to hide

My new Figures are
For just the Federation
1 ESD
4 SSDs
200 ISDs
24 Victory Class SD
144 Frigits
Assorted support craft
The SSDs and ISDs make up the assult Force on the Federation while after to the fact the top 150 Planets/systems get an ISD in permant orbit leaving my core force of 30(I assume possibly loosing as much as 20 ISDs during the Fight, not likley but still) 30 ISDs, 24 of which along with the 4SSDs will support me as my Main Sector Fleet of the Fedderation, the Frigits would be my Patrol Craft in 6 Craft Formation giving me 24 free-roaming squadrens which could take up to 50 AQ ships by thier own, The 6 ISDs and 24 Victorys would reminan as Earth fleet while my main sector fleet wipes out the borg, BDZ for them, The ECS I would use as my terror weapon and after the SSDs and ISDs return it would form up with the 24 Vics and 6 ISDs as my expdition force to attacking anything else

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-09-23 12:09pm

Once again in my humble opinion, it depends on the situation. How did the SW galaxy meet the ST galaxy, if its some what like Mr. Wong's senario, then I would go with about 5 sector fleets. One sector fleet to hold the wormhole or other extra dimensional gate thingy. The remaining four fleets would drive a wedge in the AQ by attacking the Federation while keeping a supply train open with the GE by the wormhole. Invasion of Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan should put the deathnail in the Feds. Treat the newly conquered world well, for now, and bring them up to a good standard of living to pacify them. Spread out from there in a island hopping campaign, only attacking concentrated forces and leaving the less rebellious alone. Once the Feds are conquered, you will hold a more or less central location in the AQ, keep a sector fleet in Fed land and use the 3 remaining fleets in a attack on another empire, take your pick. Take them one at a time, using support from the fleets in the new sectors surrounding them. Always keeping the line of resupply open, and a way for reinforcements open just incase.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-09-23 07:55pm

Actually, I was thinking of an alternative strategy:

Attackanother power hostile to the Feds and their allies and consolodate it completely all the while putting moles in Fed territory. Then jump all over the Flatheads.

If you want, I can make this another thread.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-23 11:40pm

I don't think that the Empire would consider it worth an ISD per planet to conquer the Federation, but I also don't think that they would need that. A force of between 30 and fifty ISD's with a few support ships would be MORE than sufficient to complete the invasion, and a holding fleet of not more than ten or fifteen ships would be needed to maintain order. I thought that the question was about the entire AQ, though, in which case additional forces would obviously be needed.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-09-24 02:49am

I would still want the massive force to not only enforce the hold you have, but to maintain that hold aginst internal and external threats. I would expect other Alpha powers to attempt to "cash in" on the Imperial blitzkreig into Fed space. Wouldn't want to loose all those planets you just fought over.

One of the reasons I would suggest a different strategy of assaulting the Romulans or some other power with no known allies. Everyone hates them and no one would lift a finger to help. Easy conquest for the empire and a high chance that no one would interfere.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-09-24 03:59am

Mr Bean wrote:Yes the Carrackens are a might force, Deisgned much like the Defiant was for the Feddys its a highly manvurable SW Cap ship that carrys enough TL to equvilate it to eighty TIE's but more powerful(Weapons estmates range from 2MT-42MT on thier weapon) ]

You must be thinking of a Lancer frigate. ITs also possible TIE lasers, particularily bomber ones, are only megaton range... given that they're supposed to be the same kinds as those mounted on TIE bombers (which is a bit confusing, since I thought they were the same as those mounted on Corellian gunships and such)

Certian models of Carrack (or certian configurations) Can replace the 20 ion cannon with 20 laser cannon, though.

Most of the Guns are based on the MF style Ball-Turrets except they can indivudaly maned or Computer Controled and some verisons mount an additonal Eight MTLs on top of that, There biggest assest is thier firing rate(.5/second) and high Manvurablity

How do we know the fire rate?

And if its a CArrack, it has 10 HTLs and IIRC has 50% more firepower nearly than an escort frigate.

If its a Lancer frigate, it has no TLs, just the quad batteries.

Nasty Nasty things aginst smaller craft as it does not matter where you run it can probably catch up and if you fly past it, it can shoot you contiusly

For accurasy it can get within half a meter of a 5 Meter Long Target(An X-Wing) at over 5000Kms(Rouge Squadren)
Nasty things

ERmm.. 5000 km? Where exactly? AS I recall trhe lancer's guns had a 2 km range..

And X-wings are 12.5 long, not 5 meter. A page number or a situational reference would help here.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-24 07:59am

ERmm.. 5000 km? Where exactly? AS I recall trhe lancer's guns had a 2 km range..

And X-wings are 12.5 long, not 5 meter. A page number or a situational reference would help here.

Exuse me 12.5 but that even counts the protruding Engines, generaly I call it 10 or so and its not that far off

As for the Lancers guns being only 2KMs thats contradicted numrious times in battle where they shoot anywhere from 10-500KMs the only time you ever see them shooting at 2kms its in X-wing Worsphing Stackpole EU novles, Later on in A.A's books and in Zahn's writing(And most other places they are mentioned) the ranges are far greater

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-09-25 02:39am

Mr Bean wrote: Exuse me 12.5 but that even counts the protruding Engines, generaly I call it 10 or so and its not that far off

No, it isn't, but this still doesn't explain where the heck the 5 meters you originally claimed came from.

As for the Lancers guns being only 2KMs thats contradicted numrious times in battle where they shoot anywhere from 10-500KMs

Again, I ask for proof? I'm looking for books, situations, and examples I can verify independently in my own books (I doubt you have any books I don't have, so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find it.) And please BE specific, because I can't recall ANY particular examples

And further, 10-500 km is a FAR cry from the 5000 km you were claiming before.

the only time you ever see them shooting at 2kms its in X-wing Worsphing Stackpole EU novles,

Not quite. Several of the Allston "Wraith Squadron" novels reiterated the 2km range estimate. Its not just Stackpole's fault.

In any event, dismissing it simply because "Stackpole wrote it and therefore it should be ignored" is not only bad logic, its faulty analytical method. You'll need something far more concrete before you go dismissing it.

Later on in A.A's books and in Zahn's writing(And most other places they are mentioned) the ranges are far greater

Too vague. Be more specific. Examples, instances, book names, etc. You act like you're familiar with it, so it shouldn't be too difficult to spit out the details.

To my personal knowledge, none of Zahn's works were ever range-specific regarding fighter ranges (only implied cap-ship ranges) and the only Allston example I can think of with a concrete fighter range greater than 2 km was "Rebel Dream" when Gavin and Rogue Squadron fired on a Yuuzhan Vong Corvette from some 20-25 km away (both lasers and torpedoes.)

You have not answered my questions satisfactorily. Yet again I ask, please provide proof to back up not only these claims, but your original ones as well.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-25 08:54am

Ask and yea shall recive

No, it isn't, but this still doesn't explain where the heck the 5 meters you originally claimed came from.

Simple slip of the tounge, At that point I had the idea in my head X-Wings where 5 Meters long for some reason

Again, I ask for proof? I'm looking for books, situations, and examples I can verify independently in my own books (I doubt you have any books I don't have, so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find it.) And please BE specific, because I can't recall ANY particular examples

Iron Fist, A Lancer opens up on Rouge and Wraith before they are in torp range which is quite a large range

To be sure thats the only time I can think off the top of my head thus a quandry, Stackpole says 2KM Ranges only(Why build a ship that can only shoot 2 KM away you got me) but AA counters in one book and accepts it in the next meaning we have a EU issue at odds.. If we where idioits(Ala Darkstar I have not mocked on him in awhile so I shall now) we would assume the Higher number, not only that but add a Zero so it IS 50,000 KM range, But since we are both hopefuly not, I'll conceded the point due to lack of evidance for my position