Suicide

[NapoleonGH]

Are there any conditions under which suicide as an understandable and valid option in your minds? Say you knwo that all your potential to have a meaningful life just disappeared, why bother continuing living with nothing left to live for?

Hypothetical situation, lets say that you have worked your entire life to succeed academically, everything is working, you got into the college of your dreams and are prepared to use that as your spring board to make an impact on the world. One day you are arrested and tried for a drug related crime or somesuch, some minor crime that causes no harm to anyone. Becasue of this your college revokes your admission and no other institute of higher learning will accept you. You also now have a criminal record that will prevent you from getting the best jobs that are avaialbe (those being crappy jobs anyway with only a HS diploma and no BA let alone a PhD) and will prevent you from going into politics or any such thing. With all your concievable goals and futures gone, what reason do you have to continue living?

In short, if you have no future, what is the point of having a present?

[darthdavid]

That situation, No. You can change your goals. If you're termanally ill, in pain, no chance of cure, then yes suicide is ok. If you're old, feeble and want to pick your own time to leave this mortal toil, then yes. Otherwise seriously consider the consequences of a permanant solution to a temporary problem.

[haas mark]

Statute of limitations is 7 years. I can wait.

~ver

[Shiva Archon]

I find it unlikely that if you succeed academically NO institute of higher education will take you, regardless of your minor offense. Even if you resort to community college or something similar, you can still continue your education. Yes it sucks and sets you back, but I wouldn't say suicide is the answer to that situation.

[Frank Hipper]

In short, if you have no future, what is the point of having a present?

The situation you describe most certainly does not preclude you having a future. It may be more difficult to achieve the goals you've presented for yourself, but it hasn't destroyed all hope for them.

Suicide is acceptable if you are suffering from a terminal disease, and have nothing but indescribeable agony to look forward too. Shame, mistakes, or failures do not make an acceptable case, IMO.

[salm]

Are there any conditions under which suicide as an understandable and valid option in your minds? Say you knwo that all your potential to have a meaningful life just disappeared, why bother continuing living with nothing left to live for?

Hypothetical situation, lets say that you have worked your entire life to succeed academically, everything is working, you got into the college of your dreams and are prepared to use that as your spring board to make an impact on the world. One day you are arrested and tried for a drug related crime or somesuch, some minor crime that causes no harm to anyone. Becasue of this your college revokes your admission and no other institute of higher learning will accept you. You also now have a criminal record that will prevent you from getting the best jobs that are avaialbe (those being crappy jobs anyway with only a HS diploma and no BA let alone a PhD) and will prevent you from going into politics or any such thing. With all your concievable goals and futures gone, what reason do you have to continue living?

In short, if you have no future, what is the point of having a present?

leave the country and go to a college somewhere else. in case of your drug related crime you might want to chose holland.

[Robert Treder]

The only thing I can imagine giving me suicidal tendencies is blindness, and even that I bet I'd cope with.

In the given situation, I think salm has the best answer; go to another country and enroll in college.

[Sir Sirius]

Are there any conditions under which suicide as an understandable and valid option in your minds?

Serious illness for one. Like terminal pancreatic cancer, killing yourself to avoid a slow and painfull death is understandable or Alzheimers, killing yourself to avoid ending up a vegetable is understandable.

And then there are the weirdo situations, like being captured while attempting to sabotage a secret Nazi research facility, killing yourself to avoid being tortured to death (and preventing the Nazis from squeezing that all important information about the up coming invasion of Normandy out of you) is understandable.

Say you knwo that all your potential to have a meaningful life just disappeared, why bother continuing living with nothing left to live for?

The situation would have to be pretty dire (see above).

Hypothetical situation, lets say that you have worked your entire life to succeed academically, everything is working, you got into the college of your dreams and are prepared to use that as your spring board to make an impact on the world. One day you are arrested and tried for a drug related crime or somesuch, some minor crime that causes no harm to anyone. Becasue of this your college revokes your admission and no other institute of higher learning will accept you. You also now have a criminal record that will prevent you from getting the best jobs that are avaialbe (those being crappy jobs anyway with only a HS diploma and no BA let alone a PhD) and will prevent you from going into politics or any such thing. With all your concievable goals and futures gone, what reason do you have to continue living?

No, this is not an acceptable scenario in my oppinion, even if things truly are so bad. There are always other things you can do with your life.

(BTW I doubt that you would get kicked out of shool in Finland for a crime that didn't result in a prison sentance and had nothing to do with the school directly. And Finnish schools don't ask about your criminal record (and even if they would, you could lie, it's not like they are going to hire a rpivate investigator to check you out or anything) I don't see how being arrested for some minor offence would hamper your future prospects in the least.)

In short, if you have no future, what is the point of having a present?

IMHO unless you are about to die, end up a vegetable or a quadriplegic, you have a future.

[Uraniun235]

If it's World War 3 and I'm puking my guts up from radiation poisoning, I'll probably off myself to save myself future agony.

[Lagmonster]

I can't imagine any scenario where killing myself is a good idea. I CAN think of several scenarios in which putting myself in the path of certain death is a noble idea, but that's about the only cause that comes to mind.

THen again, I am a fiend when it comes to personal safety. I can't think that I would be able to give up, even if I was sick. This is because I have no reason to believe that there is anything but oblivion past life, and thus every moment is precious to me. Even in agony a person can experience SOMETHING worthwhile, or at least have hope that you'll find a way out somehow. People have survived some truly lethal events, and it's difficult for me to forget that when undergoing one.

[Baron Scarpia]

Suicide has been glamorized by literature, television, film, etc. I can think of a large number of characters who had "noble" or "cool" ends through suicidal means. But I think it would rarely be the only option for someone.

I'd kill myself if:

1) I was terminally ill. Dr. Kevorkian, come to me!

2) My suicide would prevent some greater tragedy (a la Gene Hackman in "The Poseidon Adventure"or if I had to avoid spilling a great secret under torture, etc.)

3) To avoid a far more painful demise. Like if giant spiders were attacking and I was cornered with nothing but a handgun, I'd put the nozzle in my mouth and pull the trigger so the bastards couldn't eat me alive.

As to suicide being a dramatic device, whether it's Javert in Les Miserables, Anna Karennina, Tosca, Gracchus in "Spartacus" or the like, suicide can be quite a great way to resolve a character. Too bad the easily influenced tend to think it's a way to go as a result, though.

[Shrykull]

Are there any conditions under which suicide as an understandable and valid option in your minds? Say you knwo that all your potential to have a meaningful life just disappeared, why bother continuing living with nothing left to live for?

Hypothetical situation, lets say that you have worked your entire life to succeed academically, everything is working, you got into the college of your dreams and are prepared to use that as your spring board to make an impact on the world. One day you are arrested and tried for a drug related crime or somesuch, some minor crime that causes no harm to anyone. Becasue of this your college revokes your admission and no other institute of higher learning will accept you. You also now have a criminal record that will prevent you from getting the best jobs that are avaialbe (those being crappy jobs anyway with only a HS diploma and no BA let alone a PhD) and will prevent you from going into politics or any such thing. With all your concievable goals and futures gone, what reason do you have to continue living?

But why would you do something like that knowing that it could have consequences like that? Knowing it could ruin your life like that that you've worked all your life to build?

[NapoleonGH]

because people have addictions this is a purely hypothetical question, i just immagined what would depress me the most, ie having my college tell me to get lost and not being able to get the education necessary to proceed down my chosen path of life. wanted to see if anyone else would see that as depressing a thought as i do.

[Jaded Masses]

wanted to see if anyone else would see that as depressing a thought as i do.

I find the thought of losing my academic future very depressing, probably to the point of suicide.( can't be certain however, not having been in the situation). However the situation you described would not be enough because I don't think it would spell doom for higher learning. Even if institutions of higher learning were put out of my grasp, there is still self education. Some of the most eminent scientists and thinkers were self educated.

[Shrykull]

because people have addictions this is a purely hypothetical question, i just immagined what would depress me the most, ie having my college tell me to get lost and not being able to get the education necessary to proceed down my chosen path of life. wanted to see if anyone else would see that as depressing a thought as i do.

well, first you have to make a choice to try the cocaine or heroine or whatever before you get addicted.

[NapoleonGH]

and well first you have to make the choice to completely miss the point of the post.

And secondly, that doesnt matter in the least buddy boy. Most users of both drugs dont get addicted, so clearly the choice isnt to get addicted to one of them, its if you allow your use to get out of hand and become abuse.

[Shrykull]

And secondly, that doesnt matter in the least buddy boy. Most users of both drugs dont get addicted, so clearly the choice isnt to get addicted to one of them, its if you allow your use to get out of hand and become abuse

So it's OK to try drugs if you don't get addicted to them?? A lot of people do get addicted that's why you should never start in the first place, the emphasis is on avoiding it all together rather than controlling your usage.

[NapoleonGH]

actually id disagree and say that there is no reason not to use drugs at all, other than the fear of police entanglement (i mean drugs in general, a few specific drugs which are the most dangerous should be avoided, like alcohol, probably the most dangerous depressant around)

[Slowhand]

I'll try not to comment much about drug use (I seem to remember reading somewhere at this BB that such talk is frowned upon), but in this "worst-case-scenario", suicide is not really a viable option. In the last 12 months I myself have: been divorced from my wife of 12 years, entered a state of deep, clinical depression, lost my job as a result, declared personal bankrupcy, and lost my house and car. Dire straits indeed, and if I ever did consider checking out forever, it was certainly the depression that instigated such thinking.

Today I'm still poor, but I've met an awesome lady friend and I'm thinking about going back to school. My mind is again clear and the future looks bright. A suicide would have precluded my current state of bliss.

Suicide, or doctor assisted euthenasia for the terminally ill or the infirm I would consider to be an individual's right to die with dignity when you know full well that things will never get better. Being (wrongly) tagged with a minor drug conviction is not sufficent to warrant ending one's life.

Oh yea, I've also beaten ulcerative colitis and cancer. Suicide was never an option. Case closed.