Not really, no its not. Here basic trains you to be a basic soldier with basic soldiering abilities. Continuation training for all branches is quite seperate from basic, well it is here, and it wont be much different in the UK or Aussie.Howedar wrote:Well basic does mean basic, after all. What I was trying to say was that infantry school is not entirely separate from basic training in the US Army. I suspect this is true everywhere.
Elite US military ... butlers.
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Stuart Mackey
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Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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In the US Army, all soldiers receive what is called Basic Combat Training, after which they will receive Advanced Individual Training (AIT). Infantry soldiers and other combat military occupational specialties (MOS) receive what is called One Station Unit Training (OSUT), which means that the same drill sergeants that instructed soldiers in Basic Combat Training will train AIT as well. Other Combat Support and Combat Service Support (CS/CSS) MOS train at different locations and under different drill sergeants or TAC NCOs for AIT. Here are some examples:
Basic Combat Training Brigade at Fort Benning trains Infantrymen through AIT. That is OSUT.
The Quartermaster School is an example of an Army school that offers AIT at a separate post from where the same soldiers receive Basic Combat Training, and it isn't unusual for those soldiers to seldom see any form of combat training ever again, as they most often either train their MOS skills or conduct their CSS mission. We see some of the blowback of this in the frequency of attacks on CSS units in a combat zone. Basic soldier skills are subordinated to MOS-specific skills, tasks, and missions.
Basic Combat Training Brigade at Fort Benning trains Infantrymen through AIT. That is OSUT.
The Quartermaster School is an example of an Army school that offers AIT at a separate post from where the same soldiers receive Basic Combat Training, and it isn't unusual for those soldiers to seldom see any form of combat training ever again, as they most often either train their MOS skills or conduct their CSS mission. We see some of the blowback of this in the frequency of attacks on CSS units in a combat zone. Basic soldier skills are subordinated to MOS-specific skills, tasks, and missions.
The Navy used to have a ship's steward rating that could be considered similar. It was done away with and the people and the jobs were rolled into the Mess Specialist ratings.
I see no reason for Admirals to have their own personal "butler". As it is there is probably one or two guys on a carrier assigned to make sure the Admiral's laundry is cleaned and pressed correctly. There are people cleaning his stateroom at least every day, and I'm sure there are plenty of people on his staff to help him get his job done. There are lots of people kissing flag ass there doesn't need to be a "knob polisher" rating to get it done any better. Besides, where would they get all of the people necessary to fill those jobs? Most of the people who would be interested in that kind of job are already employed as caddies for Air Force officers.
Part of the reason the Navy got rid of the steward rating was because it was being predominantly filled by Filipinos so in a way it was becoming racist by default.
I see no reason for Admirals to have their own personal "butler". As it is there is probably one or two guys on a carrier assigned to make sure the Admiral's laundry is cleaned and pressed correctly. There are people cleaning his stateroom at least every day, and I'm sure there are plenty of people on his staff to help him get his job done. There are lots of people kissing flag ass there doesn't need to be a "knob polisher" rating to get it done any better. Besides, where would they get all of the people necessary to fill those jobs? Most of the people who would be interested in that kind of job are already employed as caddies for Air Force officers.
Part of the reason the Navy got rid of the steward rating was because it was being predominantly filled by Filipinos so in a way it was becoming racist by default.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Damn...you mean I have to wait until I make Admiral to get a butler?Tsyroc wrote:The Navy used to have a ship's steward rating that could be considered similar. It was done away with and the people and the jobs were rolled into the Mess Specialist ratings.
I see no reason for Admirals to have their own personal "butler". As it is there is probably one or two guys on a carrier assigned to make sure the Admiral's laundry is cleaned and pressed correctly. There are people cleaning his stateroom at least every day, and I'm sure there are plenty of people on his staff to help him get his job done. There are lots of people kissing flag ass there doesn't need to be a "knob polisher" rating to get it done any better. Besides, where would they get all of the people necessary to fill those jobs? Most of the people who would be interested in that kind of job are already employed as caddies for Air Force officers.
Part of the reason the Navy got rid of the steward rating was because it was being predominantly filled by Filipinos so in a way it was becoming racist by default.
*sigh*
*wonders how much trouble he'd get in for making the most junior E-1/E-2/E-3 in a Division be his lackey*
(j/k - I'd be a responsible naval officer...really!)
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
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The USMC and US Army both have a proud history to turning back enemy attacks with scratch forces of a few hundred clerks and drivers.Stuart Mackey wrote:
All of your soldiers should be able to do basic infantry work, and be shown how in basic, regardless of their job. Having said that, I would not expect a truck driver to perform well as a line infantryman or vice versa as their jobs are different.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
RogueIce wrote: Damn...you mean I have to wait until I make Admiral to get a butler?
*sigh*
*wonders how much trouble he'd get in for making the most junior E-1/E-2/E-3 in a Division be his lackey*
Well, you won't be able to have your own "butler" for awhile but on my first ship I got stuck being the division "office bitch" because I was stupid enough to let on that I at least some typing skills.
Our division only had about 12 people so we barely had an office and we certainly weren't important enough to have our own Yeoman. So on top off all my regular duties (cleaning, painting, DC maintenance, equipment maintennance, classified pubs P.O., standing watch etc...) I got to be the lucky soul who got to type up our divisions messages. It was kind of cool at first but the edit function on the machine sucked ass so whenever I made a mistake I ended up typing it over. I also used a computer that printed punch tapes which I had to take down to communication to have sent off of the ship.
By the way, I was just thinking that if you had been an officer on the Saratoga you could have used the escalator to go fromt the first level to the 3rd level instead of climbing the laters. Oh the perks of being a zero.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
However, this doesn't mean dedicated infantry wouldn't have done better.Sea Skimmer wrote:The USMC and US Army both have a proud history to turning back enemy attacks with scratch forces of a few hundred clerks and drivers.Stuart Mackey wrote:
All of your soldiers should be able to do basic infantry work, and be shown how in basic, regardless of their job. Having said that, I would not expect a truck driver to perform well as a line infantryman or vice versa as their jobs are different.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
But it's what makes our wars ever-so-interesting, don't you think?Howedar wrote:However, this doesn't mean dedicated infantry wouldn't have done better.Sea Skimmer wrote:The USMC and US Army both have a proud history to turning back enemy attacks with scratch forces of a few hundred clerks and drivers.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Stuart Mackey
- Drunken Kiwi Editor of the ASVS Press
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- Joined: 2002-07-04 12:28am
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
The NZ army has a history of succesfull attacks with truck drivers.Sea Skimmer wrote:The USMC and US Army both have a proud history to turning back enemy attacks with scratch forces of a few hundred clerks and drivers.Stuart Mackey wrote:
All of your soldiers should be able to do basic infantry work, and be shown how in basic, regardless of their job. Having said that, I would not expect a truck driver to perform well as a line infantryman or vice versa as their jobs are different.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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EmperorMing
- Sith Devotee
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I feel the same way. As a former enlisted man I would *not* want to have such an officer in any type of leadership position over me. And I can probably say the same for just about any other enlisted man out there too.jegs2 wrote:No thanks.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Officers should have a permanent assigned butler from the beginning of West Point to their retirement. It would let them concentrate on being officers.
That type of ossifer is a frag waiting to happen...
DILLIGAF: Does It Look Like I Give A Fuck
Kill your God!
Excellent...the Navy doesn't have a lot of frag grenades on ship...and so long as I stay off the deck as much as possible, I'm safe!EmperorMing wrote:I feel the same way. As a former enlisted man I would *not* want to have such an officer in any type of leadership position over me. And I can probably say the same for just about any other enlisted man out there too.
That type of ossifer is a frag waiting to happen...
Now, where's my butler?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
- Posts: 37390
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Well sometimes they do. Back in WW2 a small USN escort forced a U-boat to the surface in the Atlantic, but before they could engage with gunfire the U-boat sped up alongside and the crew attempted to BOARD the escort. The crew fought back with rifles before someone brought up a case of grenades. They wiped out the Germans on the there and the U-boats deck with them before pitching several down the conning tower hatch. The U-boat then tired to ram before it sank.RogueIce wrote:
Excellent...the Navy doesn't have a lot of frag grenades on ship...and so long as I stay off the deck as much as possible, I'm safe!
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
And meanwhile, in the modern Navy...away from those crazy loonies...er, Marines...Sea Skimmer wrote:Well sometimes they do. Back in WW2 a small USN escort forced a U-boat to the surface in the Atlantic, but before they could engage with gunfire the U-boat sped up alongside and the crew attempted to BOARD the escort. The crew fought back with rifles before someone brought up a case of grenades. They wiped out the Germans on the there and the U-boats deck with them before pitching several down the conning tower hatch. The U-boat then tired to ram before it sank.
But that reminds me. First... *makes sure none of his butlers get anywhere near the Ship's Security arms locker, and surrounds himself with loyal MAs*
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
I can see you're going to be one of those officers that likes his coffee flavored with urine.RogueIce wrote: Excellent...the Navy doesn't have a lot of frag grenades on ship...and so long as I stay off the deck as much as possible, I'm safe!
Now, where's my butler?
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
And you were one of those Sailors who couldn't take a joke.Tsyroc wrote:I can see you're going to be one of those officers that likes his coffee flavored with urine.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight