Straight men are hypocrites

[InnerBrat]

... nice attention grabbing controversal title there, methinks.

Let me explain - I was sitting in the gym last night discussing Bish Robinson and Canon Jeffery John, and about the 'allegations' surrounding them about being total pervs, most of which seems to be just people trying to come up with excuses as to why they shouldn't be bishops. What stood out was 'unwanted sexual advances'.

Now, in the same conversation we had been discussing our own problems with unwanted male attention, and the John Leslie situation - as in he may not be a rapist but he's still a dirty lech.

And it occured to us that women put up with a hell of a lot more with respects to unwanted sexual advances from men than they themselves will put up with from other men.

Do you guys agree with this statement (and if not why not), do you think it's a problem, and is the problem society's innate homophobia, its innate misogyny, or an equal combination of both?

(Disclaimer: not all of you are disgusting leches, nor homophobes, but I'm tlaking about the ones who force us to change our tube journey so we're half an hour late, and the ones that present Blue Peter)

[Edi]

Actually I agree with that statement in general terms. Men just won't stand for it when another man makes advances toward them, and a fist in the face isn't all that unlikely an outcome. Maybe it's homophobia, maybe a sense of violation (if someone made a pass at me and didn't back off at the first no, then this would be my reason for getting angry), maybe something else.

But at the same time far too many of these same men will for some idiotic reason or another fail to understand that when they harass a woman, they're guilty of exactly the same thing, that exact same violation, and that's something that torques me off. The ones who do it are hypocrites, no way around it, and they are, unfortunately, all too common. Fortunately, there is, at least as far as I know, quite a respectable number of men who would gladly smack those hypocrites upside the head with a 2 by 4 when they are pointed out, so don't give up on us just yet.

Edi

[Vympel]

Just a bit of trivia: a few decades ago a straight guy hurting/killing a homosexual man for unwanted sexual advances was considered a defense to the charges.

[Zoink]

I don't think its necessarily being hypocritical. A lot of these same guys expect to be turned down similarly by women.

Some of the problem is with women, who don't give a guy a straight answer. They'll often stall, give false answers that don't flattely say "no", or drag the guy along even though he has no chance... all the while the guy just wants to hear "yes" or "no" or even "get lost loser"...

I'm really direct (I think a lot of guys are, that's why they'll go up to a woman and hit on her so obviously), so if a gay guy were to flirt, I'd give him a straight "no and don't ever do that again". I'm not being hypocritical because I'm simply saying the truth: I really *don't* want him to do that again. I would pay money to have many women do the same.

[Lagmonster]

It's a tough call.

And since I don't believe there's any way I could decide what the 'norm' is for you, I'll tell you what I, specifically, know:

I hate it when people come on to me. Male, female, don't care. And I get a healthy mix of both (I seem to have a "Chances are, I will sleep with you" sign tatooed on my shiny pate). If I don't want to flirt with you, I certainly don't want you to flirt with me, because I'm too polite to tell you to get lost.

Now, this may be because I'm a tall german with little hair, the flirting ability of an android, and a tendency to try to be the alpha male even in situations where I clearly have no idea what I'm doing, but, that's the way things are.

[Montcalm]

I think most straight men like me would feel insulted if a gay come on to us.

[Enforcer Talen]

I flirt with everyone.

so, I dont know what your talking about.

hehe.

[NecronLord]

If gay men started flirting with me (again) i'd be flattered and or confused, not hostile.

It they tried to rape me of course, I'd be pretty fucking hostile then, but that's a different matter

[Enforcer Talen]

well, yes.

[Montcalm]

Q: What do you call a gay who does`nt understand the meaning of no.

A: A catholic priest.

[Peregrin Toker]

(Disclaimer: not all of you are disgusting leches, nor homophobes, but I'm tlaking about the ones who force us to change our tube journey so we're half an hour late, and the ones that present Blue Peter)

What is "Blue Peter"?

[Master of Ossus]

I don't especially like it when another man makes an advance on me because of the two implications that this man is subtly acting on:

1. I am also homosexual, or at least bisexual.
2. I am not attached at the moment to anyone else, and thus it is acceptable social behavior to attempt to pick me up.

In particular, the second assumption I find to be offensive, and I would find it particularly offensive if anything like this were to have happened recently (ie. while I'm wearing my wedding ring).

However, I would agree with you that the amount of propositioning men must put up with from other men is miniscule compared to the propositioning that goes on between men and women.

[NapoleonGH]

I can agree that women have to put up with alot of sh*t from assholeish men. I've walked down the streets of NY, and even there a woman walking alone will ahve cars honk at her, pull up and have the guys hit on her, etc. It has happened to my sister, it has happened to my best friend, oddly enough since i have long hair (not particularily feminine long hair though, if anything its Jimmy Page long hair), it happened to me, till i turned and they realized i was a guy.

[Stravo]

I used to get very offended when a homosexual man made a pass at me because I would always think "What is it about me that made him think I was gay." Living in NYC however immunizes you to this attitude after awhile and now I am offended if a gay guy does not think I'm cute because I happen to think that they have better taste than most women. But I digress.

The issue of men harassing women is a thorny one because quite frankly some women enjoy the chase. They like stringing a guy a long and making him jump through hoops. I can't tell you how many times I've pursued a woman, flirted for months and finally she acquiessed. There is a difference between that just harassing a woman. Unfortunately the difference can be very subjective.

Many men are too clumsy and inept to read a woman and know when she is looking for the chase and when she just wants to be left alone.

[Vympel]

2. I am not attached at the moment to anyone else, and thus it is acceptable social behavior to attempt to pick me up.

In particular, the second assumption I find to be offensive, and I would find it particularly offensive if anything like this were to have happened recently (ie. while I'm wearing my wedding ring).

Well yeah, but if you're not wearing your wedding ring it's perfectly understandable- in fact, essential to the survival of our species!

[InnerBrat]

2. I am not attached at the moment to anyone else, and thus it is acceptable social behavior to attempt to pick me up.

In particular, the second assumption I find to be offensive, and I would find it particularly offensive if anything like this were to have happened recently (ie. while I'm wearing my wedding ring).

Well yeah, but if you're not wearing your wedding ring it's perfectly understandable- in fact, essential to the survival of our species!

don't bring your strange Australian politicians in here, thank you very much.

[Knife]

... nice attention grabbing controversal title there, methinks.

Let me explain - I was sitting in the gym last night discussing Bish Robinson and Canon Jeffery John, and about the 'allegations' surrounding them about being total pervs, most of which seems to be just people trying to come up with excuses as to why they shouldn't be bishops. What stood out was 'unwanted sexual advances'.

Now, in the same conversation we had been discussing our own problems with unwanted male attention, and the John Leslie situation - as in he may not be a rapist but he's still a dirty lech.

And it occured to us that women put up with a hell of a lot more with respects to unwanted sexual advances from men than they themselves will put up with from other men.

Do you guys agree with this statement (and if not why not), do you think it's a problem, and is the problem society's innate homophobia, its innate misogyny, or an equal combination of both?

(Disclaimer: not all of you are disgusting leches, nor homophobes, but I'm tlaking about the ones who force us to change our tube journey so we're half an hour late, and the ones that present Blue Peter)

Honestly, I think both sexes and perhaps all people of their respected lifestyles dislike people who they would perfer not to hit on them, to well....hit on them.

Women who wear very revealing clothing to attract certain people, dislike it when some one who doesn't meet her standards hits on her. Or so I have come to understand.

The same concept can be applied to the straight/gay issue. A straight man will not enjoy a gay man hitting on him when he is expecting a woman to hit on him. Call it shock, confusion, being pissed that while this guy is making his move, a hottie just walked passed and you missed your chance with her while this guy was wasting your time.

[LordShaithis]

Most men would quit acting like assholes if women quit sleeping with said assholes.

[Zoink]

Women who wear very revealing clothing to attract certain people, dislike it when some one who doesn't meet her standards hits on her. Or so I have come to understand.

That's a good observation .... its the same reaction most straight guys have if a gay guy hits on them. The guys are just more vocal about it.

If the girl has someone else in mind, the girl will usually get offended if someone she doesn't like hits on her, as if she doesn't want to be seen associating with said person (probably wants to appear that she's only interested in Mr.Right sitting in the corner).... its a generalization, but the whole thread is a generalization.

The guy equally rejects the gay guy because he find him sexually repulsive and doesn't want to be seen associating with such a situation (because he doesn't want to look less masculine, ultimately less appealing to the girl(s) he wants).

I think that in both cases, they have a right to react how they do.... as long as nobody gets hostile.

[Rye]

Well, i just take it as a compliment if anyone comes onto me to be honest, cos i'm just an attention whore, secretly.

[Master of Ossus]

2. I am not attached at the moment to anyone else, and thus it is acceptable social behavior to attempt to pick me up.

In particular, the second assumption I find to be offensive, and I would find it particularly offensive if anything like this were to have happened recently (ie. while I'm wearing my wedding ring).

Well yeah, but if you're not wearing your wedding ring it's perfectly understandable- in fact, essential to the survival of our species!

I guess, I would have thought they could have asked, though, or at least gotten to know me to the point that they knew if I had a boyfriend/girlfriend, first.

[Montcalm]

If the girl has someone else in mind, the girl will usually get offended if someone she doesn't like hits on her, as if she doesn't want to be seen associating with said person (probably wants to appear that she's only interested in Mr.Right sitting in the corner).... its a generalization, but the whole thread is a generalization.

She may be disapointed when she see that Mr Right is wrong,and Mr Wrong was the right choice.

[Alyrium Denryle]

What is really wierd is when while you are mildly drunk... the straight guy hits on you

I really have never been angrilly rebuked when htting on someone. Probably because I simply dont hit on people who's reaction I am uncertain of... SUre I flirt(often shamelessly) but the person I flirt with, either A. Doesnt care, or B. Enjoys it(even if they are straight, they fnd it amusing, and flattering. kind of a "Yeah, I am hot shit" attitude I suppose)

I know a few guys that or horrible leches... And a bit mysoginist as well. What is truly amazing is that they have more females crawling over them than I do(I think it is the whole"He wont try to sleep with me" attitude)

I suppose it is a two sided coin. Some females see such behavior as sickening, others see a dominant and protective figure

[kojikun]

Well, i just take it as a compliment if anyone comes onto me to be honest, cos i'm just an attention whore, secretly.

SECRETLY? Flaunting Rye-Porn is not SECRETLY.

[Rye]

Well, i just take it as a compliment if anyone comes onto me to be honest, cos i'm just an attention whore, secretly.

SECRETLY? Flaunting Rye-Porn is not SECRETLY.

Well i didn't do it HERE...at least. Lol.