Homeschooldebate.com

[Enforcer Talen]

gor, I expect.

[Peregrin Toker]

gor, I expect.

I've PMed it to Bug-Eyed Earl. (BTW, I was indeed referring to John Norman, author of "Chronicles of Gor")

OK, back on topic!!

[lance]

A couple friends of mine are home schooled. One of them has social anxiety disorder or somthing, and is pretty smart. the other one I don't know why and is not smart. Though I doubt it was for religuis reasons, because he plays
D&D and MtG.

[Striderteen]

Do you think there is actually a causal relationship there, or just the types of people who are religious fanatics also tend to be the types of people who would homeschool?

I think it's the latter. I could be called a religious fanatic by some people, but it didn't have anything to do with why I started homeschooling.

[David]

Does it strike anyone as ironic that there's a website called "homeschooldebate.com" which does not really allow debate?

Most people who try to argue in favour of homeschooling use arguments like "homeschoolers score higher on SATs". However, this argument ignores the fact that there is a large proportion of homeschoolers which has no intention of going to university and never takes the SATs at all, thus skewing the statistics.

It is the same with their other arguments; they pick and choose examples of well-educated homeschooled kids (it is certainly possible, given the right parents), and generalize to conclude that all homeschooled kids are actually better off. However, the fact remains that most people who homeschool their kids don't do it to teach their kids more; they do it to teach their kids less. Specifically, they do it to keep their kids away from "dangerous influences".

The funny thing about homeschooldebate.com is that they simply prove the point, that while not 100% of homeschoolers are rabid fundie idiots, most of them still are.

Or because your schools are dangerous to a ridiculous degree, or because your the teachers are morons that went into secondary education because they barely got through college level algebra, or because the classes your children are in are over crowded. My mother took me out of public school after I finished 3rd grade, that same year there were knifings at the middle school that I would have attended, and home made bombs going off at the high school I would have eventually. That high school later installed metal detectors at all of it's entrances, gave all the students id cards that they were required to wear at all times, and highered security guards. It looked like a minimum security prison instead of a high school.


I was home schooled through high school, and through local home school groups I've met dozens of other home schooling families. While the groups were as varied as you might find in any public school, some super smart and some dumb as your average rock, they all tended to be rathger well adjusted and capable of socializing as well as any public schooled person. While some of those that were the same age as me and older did not go on to get a college education, most did, and many of those have either graduated or are still persuing degrees.


I don't agree with the idea that home schoolers lack in the way of social skills, because I have had the opportunity to observe dozens of different home schoolers throughout their lives. And I personally think that the idea that home schoolers are incapable of growing up with average or better social and academic skills to be a fantasy dreamed up by people with no real experience in this area. A fantasy that is fostered by public school and social service employees that are angry about the loss in federal funds to schools due to the decrease in the student body.

[Darth Wong]

Or because your schools are dangerous to a ridiculous degree, or because your the teachers are morons that went into secondary education because they barely got through college level algebra, or because the classes your children are in are over crowded. My mother took me out of public school after I finished 3rd grade, that same year there were knifings at the middle school that I would have attended, and home made bombs going off at the high school I would have eventually. That high school later installed metal detectors at all of it's entrances, gave all the students id cards that they were required to wear at all times, and highered security guards. It looked like a minimum security prison instead of a high school.

Then go to a private school. It's less costly than homeschooling.

I was home schooled through high school, and through local home school groups I've met dozens of other home schooling families. While the groups were as varied as you might find in any public school, some super smart and some dumb as your average rock, they all tended to be rathger well adjusted and capable of socializing as well as any public schooled person. While some of those that were the same age as me and older did not go on to get a college education, most did, and many of those have either graduated or are still persuing degrees.

What does that have to do with anything I said? Did I even mention socializing skills in passing? Did you read what I wrote?

If someone is homeschooled for the right reasons and by competent parents, there's nothing wrong with that. But far too many people homeschool in order to teach their kids less, not more. Those people are idiots, and should not be allowed to do so. And they are hardly a small minority; look for homeschooling support networks and they always seem to have a religious component.

[Peregrin Toker]

What does that have to do with anything I said? Did I even mention socializing skills in passing? Did you read what I wrote?

If someone is homeschooled for the right reasons and by competent parents, there's nothing wrong with that. But far too many people homeschool in order to teach their kids less, not more.

And that is exactly the problem with homeschooling!

It's almost guaranteed to provide substandard education, unless the parents are extremely intelligent.

As for your comment about private schools - not to go off topic, but I have heard that if private schools are very popular, then it's a sign that the public schools need improvement. Do any of you agree with that statement?

[NapoleonGH]

I would say that it means 1 of two things.
1, That the public schools need to be improved
2. that the populace is ultra-religious/sports crazy and thus the public school needs to be congratualted for not giving in to anti-intellectual residents.

[Durandal]

And that is exactly the problem with homeschooling!

It's almost guaranteed to provide substandard education, unless the parents are extremely intelligent.

Even then, if the parents are so willing to devote all their free time to educating their child, then why not just help the child out with his homework?

As for your comment about private schools - not to go off topic, but I have heard that if private schools are very popular, then it's a sign that the public schools need improvement. Do any of you agree with that statement?

Private schools tend to form something of an elite educational class. Obviously, parents who can afford to send their kids to private school are much more rare than parents who cannot. So you're going to have less kids in private school than in public school, making for smaller class sizes, which is more conducive to education. It's no surprise that private schools often provide a better education than public ones, therefore parents of children in public schools would obviously want to see improvement in their children's educations.

However, at this point, I think that American public schools are poor beyond the normally-expected disparity between them and private schools. It's at the point where the public has essentially lost confidence in the public education system, which is why those asinine religious school vouchers were signed into law.

[Peregrin Toker]

Even then, if the parents are so willing to devote all their free time to educating their child, then why not just help the child out with his homework?

Because of very unusual reasons. I was homeschooled for kindergarten/1st grade and entered public school around 2nd grade - my parents' explanation are that I couldn't "fit into" public schools.

Also, I can point to children whose health is so bad that they usually would be missing school - be it private or public. (H.P. Lovecraft is probably the most famous person ever to be homeschooled because of health reasons, but I'm sure there are others)

Private schools tend to form something of an elite educational class.
Obviously, parents who can afford to send their kids to private school are much more rare than parents who cannot.

Doesn't this kinda create social barriers?

So you're going to have less kids in private school than in public school, making for smaller class sizes, which is more conducive to education. It's no surprise that private schools often provide a better education than public ones, therefore parents of children in public schools would obviously want to see improvement in their children's educations.

However, at this point, I think that American public schools are poor beyond the normally-expected disparity between them and private schools. It's at the point where the public has essentially lost confidence in the public education system, which is why those asinine religious school vouchers were signed into law.

Also, I read a newpaper article which stated that if more and more parents send their children to private schools, it means that the state will lose interest in spending money on the public schools and therefore leading to a growing gap between public and private schools..... is this true, or a slippery slope?? (I have the feeling that the latter is the case, although the author of the article in question cited analysises of the American education system as proof)

[David]

What does that have to do with anything I said? Did I even mention socializing skills in passing? Did you read what I wrote?

Sorry the first paragraphs were in response to your original post, the last was to the replies that seemed to mostly deal with the socializing issue.

But far too many people homeschool in order to teach their kids less, not more. Those people are idiots, and should not be allowed to do so.

By teaching their kids less I assume ( correct me if I'm wrong) you mean specifically in the area of evolution, which from what I've seen is the only area that many homeschooling parents will not teach there children.

So how do you propose to stop these idiots from homeschooling? Make homeschooling illegal? Test homeschooled students specifically in the areas that many homeschooled parents do not teach? How do you separate a good homeschooling parent from a bad one?



Edit: After reading that last bit that I wrote I realized that it might sound sarcastic, which is not my intention.

[David]

Then go to a private school. It's less costly than homeschooling.

Many homeschooling families do look into private schools before they choose homeschooling. And many of those families choose not to send their children to private schools because of the higher cost. It was certainly something my parents looked into before homeschooling me and my siblings. Most homeschooling families can get by spending $200 or less a year per child, and I think the national average is somewhere around $550. It all depends on how the child is schooled. If the parent teaches all the subjects and buys all the school books + answer keys+ study aids the cost is on the lower end. But even if the parent is on the higher end and buys instructional videos and goes through a correspodence course the cost is still hundreds if not thousands less than what many private schools charge.



Edit ( again, sorry): My above statment is assuming that the parent that chooses to stay homne and educate the children does not persue a full time career, in which case the person would save money. However the cases where the parent educating the children actually has to make the decision of either having a full time career or homeschooling seems to be rare. Most of the people that choose to stay at home and educate their children prefer to do so over going out and persuing a career.