EU Threatens Sanctions against Microsoft

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-06 01:34pm

EU gives Microsoft one more chance
Wednesday, August 6, 2003 Posted: 1312 GMT ( 9:12 PM HKT)

BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- The European Union has accused Microsoft of still abusing its dominant position, and says it is giving the company a final chance to defend itself.

The European Commission says Microsoft is unfairly using the "overwhelmingly dominant position" of its Windows operating system in personal computers to monopolize the market for server software.

It also alleges that Microsoft's inclusion of Windows Media Player in the Windows operating system hurts competing audiovisual software such as Apple QuickTime and Real Networks.

"In light of this evidence, the Commission's preliminary conclusion is that Microsoft's abuses are still ongoing," it said in a statement.

EU Competition Commissioner Mario Monti said the charge sheet sent to Microsoft also identified "appropriate remedies," including additional code Microsoft would have to disclose to competitors in the low-end server market to ensure a level playing field.

It also would have to either offer a version of Windows without the Media Player, or agree to carry rival players with Windows.

"We are determined to ensure that the final outcome of this case is to the benefit of innovation and consumers alike," Monti said.

The EU's executive Commission has been investigating Microsoft for four years.

Commission spokesman Tilman Lueder told reporters that Microsoft could face fines if the abuses continue. "We have now a very strong case. The case as it stands now is too strong to ignore," he said.

Microsoft has argued its 2002 settlement with U.S. authorities, combined with additional steps it has taken voluntarily, answer the charges about media and server software.

A Microsoft spokeswoman said the company was examining the Commission's statement, but said it was unfortunate that the investigation would now take longer.

"We are exmaining its contents thorougly now to assess the concerns in detail," spokeswoman Tiffany Steckler told Reuters.

"We take this investigation very seriously and will work hard to focus our efforts, responding to concerns and bringing this to a positive resolution."

Says alot when the two largest economies in the world have issues with your companies trade practices. Speaks to Microsoft's arrogance that they do nothing to adjust their behavior.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-06 02:44pm

I wonder how long it'll be before Microsoft's typical FUD starts spewing.

"A separate version of Windows for the EU? The world will end! Your infrastructure will collapse! We need to continue our anti-competitive practices!"

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-06 03:01pm

I'm starting to believe that that the purpose of .wmv and other Windows Media Player-only formats is to reduce competition....

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-06 03:13pm

That was always the purpose of Windows Media. For all its technical merits (and there are many), they exist only to lock others out of markets via the juggernaught that is Windows marketshare.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-08-06 03:13pm

Microsoft: good ideas, shitty realizations.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-06 03:14pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I'm starting to believe that that the purpose of .wmv and other Windows Media Player-only formats is to reduce competition....

That would be the point of it, yes.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-06 03:17pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Microsoft: good ideas, shitty realizations.

I'm also getting the feely that Microsoft systems are deliberately shoddy, since that would make people buy newer and supposedly "better" replacements from MS.

(If they don't switch to Mac)

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-08-06 06:51pm

Horror of horrors! Microsoft is selling Microsoft products! How dare they! They should be forced to sell their COMPETITOR's products!

Quicktime and Realplayer suck balls, anyway. This reminds me of Corel complaining that Microsoft Word was hurting their profits. NO, you stupid fucks, your SHITTY PRODUCTS are hurting your profits!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-06 06:55pm

SPOOFE wrote:Horror of horrors! Microsoft is selling Microsoft products! How dare they! They should be forced to sell their COMPETITOR's products!

Quicktime and Realplayer suck balls, anyway. This reminds me of Corel complaining that Microsoft Word was hurting their profits. NO, you stupid fucks, your SHITTY PRODUCTS are hurting your profits!

Did you sell your brain to gypsies? Is that what you honestly think this is about?

Microsoft is using proprietary communications protocols in order to convert marketshare in one product into marketshare in another. This is a TEXTBOOK case of antitrust violations. They should use fully documented communications standards rather than secret protocols. Imagine if telephones used a secret communications protocol instead of a publicly documented one, so that you had to buy one particular company's brand of telephones because they happened to design all of the network switches and no one else can build phones that hook in properly.

Get it now?

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-08-06 07:19pm

If the EU puts an end to Microsoft's monopolizing, I will move there the second I get the chance.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-06 07:21pm

SPOOFE wrote:Quicktime and Realplayer suck balls, anyway. This reminds me of Corel complaining that Microsoft Word was hurting their profits. NO, you stupid fucks, your SHITTY PRODUCTS are hurting your profits!

QuickTime is an open format. Windows Media is not.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-08-06 08:04pm

phongn wrote:
SPOOFE wrote:Quicktime and Realplayer suck balls, anyway. This reminds me of Corel complaining that Microsoft Word was hurting their profits. NO, you stupid fucks, your SHITTY PRODUCTS are hurting your profits!
QuickTime is an open format.

Huh? That's news to me.

I knew that .avi and .mpg were open, but not QT/.mov.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-08-06 08:07pm

Huh? That's news to me.

I knew that .avi and .mpg were open, but not QT/.mov.

I remember playing .mov files on the old windows media player, but this was way back in '97

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-08-06 08:08pm

Realplayer does, however, suck balls.

(though it offers good compression rates)

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-08-06 08:18pm

I think this is more the EU attacking Microsoft as a representative of American economic strength than any concerns about crushing all competition. They want to make some futile gesture to resist the American dominance.

It doesn't matter though. Realplayer and Quicktime really do suck. If MS wiped them out, I wouldn't be sad at all. As long as there are things like DivX none of this that MS does should be a threat to actual people.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-08-06 08:24pm

I think this is more the EU attacking Microsoft as a representative of American economic strength than any concerns about crushing all competition. They want to make some futile gesture to resist the American dominance.

Yeah because it isn't like the EU has already hammered the US government direct on trade issue and has several more cases on the way up.
US dominance of the trading world is gone, the US still has a slight edge but their days of running the show are fast receding into the mists of time.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-06 08:29pm

Seggybop wrote:I think this is more the EU attacking Microsoft as a representative of American economic strength than any concerns about crushing all competition. They want to make some futile gesture to resist the American dominance.

"Appeal to motive" fallacy. Either address the criticisms or shut the fuck up.

It doesn't matter though. Realplayer and Quicktime really do suck. If MS wiped them out, I wouldn't be sad at all.

Wrong. Streaming Internet radio would quickly become limited to MS Windows platforms, since the WMV and WMA formats are Windows-only. Microsoft would use the technique it perfected with Windows and Office of using two products in two markets to cement dominance through the use of proprietary formats. Why do you think everyone has Office? Do you think they all believe they need to spend hundreds of dollars to write memos? They do it because they need to be assured of MSWord compatibility, and the only way to do that is to buy Office.

The same thing would happen with WMV and WMA, only this time it would be backed up with no only secrecy but also legal repercussions: any attempt to crack the WMV and WMA formats would result in a DMCA violation and potential federal charges.

As long as there are things like DivX none of this that MS does should be a threat to actual people.

Try surfing the Internet without Windows Media Player and you'll discover that most radio stations don't work, and a lot of streaming video won't work either. Quicktime is not much better though, since the format is technically open but most Quicktime movies use a proprietary Sorenson codec, and that's just as bad as using a totally closed format.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-06 08:33pm

All hail the almighty Winamp, our last baston of hope and freedom.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-06 08:35pm

Oh, and for the record, Corel Office kicks M$ Office anytime anyday!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-06 08:37pm

Wah wah wah, the other programs suck! wah wah wah!

Consider, for a moment, writing software without knowing the full length and breadth of the background system. Well, perhaps I should dumb this down to laymen terms.

Here's a wall. There could be live electrical wires behind it. Here's a saw. Make a closet without cutting any of the wires. Oh, you don't get anything to detect them ahead of time.

Not a perfect analogy, but. QT and RP don't work well because they're going in mostly blind.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-08-06 08:39pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:All hail the almighty Winamp, our last baston of hope and freedom.

Winamp is the best video player, --->IMO<---

The equalizer gives you better sound than WMP does. Windows' player has some drugged out equalizer that gives you muffled sound 99% of the time. Winamp can handle most things, from divx to wmv. It's handy...dandy.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-06 09:24pm

Iceberg wrote:
phongn wrote:
SPOOFE wrote:Quicktime and Realplayer suck balls, anyway. This reminds me of Corel complaining that Microsoft Word was hurting their profits. NO, you stupid fucks, your SHITTY PRODUCTS are hurting your profits!
QuickTime is an open format.
I knew that .avi and .mpg were open, but not QT/.mov.

Sorenson has restrictive licensing policies, unfortunately - and that's the most widely used of the codec.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-06 09:25pm

SirNitram wrote:Not a perfect analogy, but. QT and RP don't work well because they're going in mostly blind.

Actually, Apple is quite capable of making competent QuickTime players - QT3 was quite good. Unfortunately, they have not been, lately, for whatever reason.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-06 09:25pm

Hamel wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:All hail the almighty Winamp, our last baston of hope and freedom.
Winamp is the best video player, --->IMO<---

The equalizer gives you better sound than WMP does. Windows' player has some drugged out equalizer that gives you muffled sound 99% of the time. Winamp can handle most things, from divx to wmv. It's handy...dandy.

I prefer ZoomPlayer, actually, for video.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-08-06 09:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Seggybop wrote:I think this is more the EU attacking Microsoft as a representative of American economic strength than any concerns about crushing all competition. They want to make some futile gesture to resist the American dominance.
"Appeal to motive" fallacy. Either address the criticisms or shut the fuck up.

I examined appeal to motive fallacy and see that you're right, as is normal.

-snip-

I didn't consider the internet radio systems. Again, you are right. But Realplayer and Quicktime still suck. I still want them wiped out, but there should be some legitimate replacement first.

I apologize for spouting BS, although saying that is of no value. I'll try harder next time.