Do we NEED genetic engineering?

[Darth Wong]

I have observed that when genetic engineering is mentioned, everybody starts spinning horror stories, doomsday scenarios, nightmare dark future visions based on sci-fi films, etc. But has anyone considered asking what will happen if we DON'T develop genetic engineering?

Consider: our species, like all biological species, normally prevents unfit genetics from propagating and weakening the gene pool through a simple and elegant mechanism: death.

However, our technology has progressed to the point that our natural pack instinct has led us to protect the weak. This is not a bad thing; it is what we consider noble. However, it also means that our gene pool is steadily worsening. Anthropologists in developing nations and working with primitive tribes have remarked on being struck at how bright and inquisitive the children there were, while children in developed nations suffer from increasingly severe and common learning disabilities with each generation. The reason is obvious: we are interfering with the process of evolution.

However, the alternative (allowing nature to take its course, and employing a harsh, unforgiving, and brutal environment in order to eliminate children who are weak or who have learning disabilities) is unacceptable to a moral people. Therefore, the development of genetic engineering technology is a moral imperative if we are to avoid progressive deterioration of our gene pool in developed nations.

Comments?

[kojikun]

Fuck who cares about need, I WANT.

[HemlockGrey]

Of course, it will not be that need which drives the market for genetic engineering. Rather, what will make such a thing profitable is not a market consisting of people who demand genetic engineering because it will save the species, but the market consisting of people who demand genetic engineeing because they want naturally blue hair.

That said, you are correct, as always.

[Frank Hipper]

You kind of echo some of my own thoughts on the subject, Lord Wong.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Hmm an interesting thought...

I honestly have never really looked at genetic engineering that way.

[aerius]

However, our technology has progressed to the point that our natural pack instinct has led us to protect the weak. This is not a bad thing; it is what we consider noble. However, it also means that our gene pool is steadily worsening. Anthropologists in developing nations and working with primitive tribes have remarked on being struck at how bright and inquisitive the children there were, while children in developed nations suffer from increasingly severe and common learning disabilities with each generation. The reason is obvious: we are interfering with the process of evolution.

I get into some rather heated discussions with my mom on this. I'm of the opinion that our "miracle drugs" and medical procedures are allowing many people to survive who otherwise wouldn't, and for the good of our gene pool shouldn't. She thinks it's all the chemicals in our food, medicine, and environment that's screwing up our immune systems and DNA. It should be noted that she's one of those natural health food nuts, but that's besides the point.

Solutions? I don't know. I ought to be Darwin'd out of the genepool myself, asthma, allergies, pretty fucking blind without glasses, family history of cancer and heart disease, hell, if it weren't for modern medicine I'd likely be dead by now. Having billions die now so that billions can have a better future isn't something that sits well with me. Humans are the first ones on earth to become advanced to get around evolution, and in doing so fuck ourselves up. I think we should be putting our brains into fixing this by tinkering with our genes.

[Admiral Johnason]

I would say that it should be used as a last resort to save our species.

[FaxModem1]

So we'll evetually look like the people in the future from Millenium(the 1989 movie) if we don't correct the gene pool as it were?

Also, how many times would you have to do genetic engineering on the human race before all the bad genes were out?

[kojikun]

this genetic engineering is going to create a dichotomy. theres going to be a group of superbright elites who are smarter, healthier, and far prettier then the average person, and then there will be the mundanes. theres going to be wars fought over this, and the mundanes will loose.

[Darth Wong]

this genetic engineering is going to create a dichotomy. theres going to be a group of superbright elites who are smarter, healthier, and far prettier then the average person, and then there will be the mundanes. theres going to be wars fought over this, and the mundanes will loose.

How do you know this scenario is true? If genetic engineering to correct problems becomes commonplace, it would be covered by health insurance plans, thus producing entire nations which are smarter and healthier.

The notion of disparities of power is a rather silly concern, given that the world already suffers from vast disparities of power between wealthy nations and poor ones, and that these disparities have far greater consequences than the hypothetical disparities you refer to.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I would argue that genetic engineering could remove every single disparity of power that may exist between members of the human species, rendering all such arguments over such disparities effectively irrelevant.

[Howedar]

My only concern about genetic engineering is that it would be used too freely, and we'd end up with a bunch of Einsteins who look like Cindy Crawford.

What a boring world.

[Darth Wong]

I would argue that genetic engineering could remove every single disparity of power that may exist between members of the human species, rendering all such arguments over such disparities effectively irrelevant.

I agree, over the long-term. All arguments against genetic engineering presume that it will forever be restricted to an elite class rather than becoming available for everyone, even though the history of technology has invariably demonstrated a trickle-down effect.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

a trickle-down effect.

Mike Wong said Trickle-Down!

*grins*

[kojikun]

How do you know this scenario is true? If genetic engineering to correct problems becomes commonplace, it would be covered by health insurance plans, thus producing entire nations which are smarter and healthier.

But theres always going to be people who refuse to be modified. Some people wont even eat GM food and they already partake in terrorist actions. You can bet that a shitload of people will fight tooth and nail to preevnt GM people.

The notion of disparities of power is a rather silly concern, given that the world already suffers from vast disparities of power between wealthy nations and poor ones, and that these disparities have far greater consequences than the hypothetical disparities you refer to.

True, but its not just a disparity of power, its a social conflict resulting from people refusing to let their children be tampered with. Can you honestly say that everyone will be GMed? Or that non-GM people will be hired in place of clearly superior GM people? I can imagine it now, "Not hiring sub-150 IQ" or "No health risks hired". People get fired today for being hospitalized too frequently, what'll happen when companies dont need to pay medical? Or when they can hire smarter people for the same money? Theres going to be a shitstorm between pissed of and fearful non-modified people and modified people. The only problem is, while in schools the nerds are picked on cause they're weak, the modified people will be stronger then the bullies. Surely, Mike, you've wished to kick the shit out of some dumb fuck who thinks hes better then you, but didnt cause he could probably break your arm in two like it was childs play, right? Everyone has. But the mods will be able to fight back, and they will. Theres going to be hell from genetic modification, and the mods wont back down. They'll be scapegoated but unlike scapegoats of the past they wont be helplessly herded into traincars, theyll fight back.

I would argue that genetic engineering could remove every single disparity of power that may exist between members of the human species, rendering all such arguments over such disparities effectively irrelevant.

Could, yes. Will, no. You think fundies or PETA or ELF or half the planet that thinks gentic engineering is bad will allow their kids to be engineered? No, they won't, they'll fight it.

[kojikun]

My only concern about genetic engineering is that it would be used too freely, and we'd end up with a bunch of Einsteins who look like Cindy Crawford.

What a boring world.

Einstein in a hot body is fucking fantastic. Not only will you have lots of fun revolutionizing the world but youll have fanTASTIC sex too!

[Alyrium Denryle]

You do realize koji that if GE becomes commonplace, homosexuality would probably disappear right?

[Darth Wong]

How do you know this scenario is true? If genetic engineering to correct problems becomes commonplace, it would be covered by health insurance plans, thus producing entire nations which are smarter and healthier.

But theres always going to be people who refuse to be modified. Some people wont even eat GM food and they already partake in terrorist actions. You can bet that a shitload of people will fight tooth and nail to preevnt GM people.

Only a tiny minority of idiots will do this, and that will be quite frankly their own damned problem. We already have people like the Amish who reject all of the benefits offered by modern technology and thus place themselves far behind the rest of society: they would simply be joined by GE luddites.

The rest of us will be apprehensive until the technology becomes widespread. After the early adopters use it, everyone else will fall in line. For example, imagine telling a prospective parent that his unborn son will grow up with serious learning disabilities and predisposition toward cancer, and then telling him that he can remove this peril through the use of genetic modification. As long as you can show that it's safe, he WILL go for it.

[Darth Wong]

You do realize koji that if GE becomes commonplace, homosexuality would probably disappear right?

Why?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Why?

*snickers* Maybe we would start producing fully-functional hermaphrodites as the new humanity for the sake of equality.

[Thunderfire]

Genetics can be used for good and bad. Genetics are the key
to solve many problem humanity currently has. The bad things
will be done anyways.

[kojikun]

<snip>

Agreed. Its going to be fun watching the GM luddites die off, tho.

Why?

I doubt it will. Firstly, parents by that time wont care about sexuality. Secondly, parents wont require both genders for a child. GM will allow same-sex combination. Its already being worked on.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You do realize koji that if GE becomes commonplace, homosexuality would probably disappear right?

Why?

Well the evidence I have seen leads me to think homosexuality is genetic... now what prospective parent is going to want a homosexual child??

[kojikun]

Why?

*snickers* Maybe we would start producing fully-functional hermaphrodites as the new humanity for the sake of equality.

I have a friend who likes herms. And that wouldnt be a bad idea, as long as tits are optional. And so long as female mood swings can be removed, as well as male overaggressiveness. And we all looked like fucking gorgeous 18 year old dudes.

[kojikun]

Well the evidence I have seen leads me to think homosexuality is genetic... now what prospective parent is going to want a homosexual child??

What parent would care? They wont need a heterosexual child in order to have grandchildren because him and his boyfriend can have a genetic child. There won't be an issue.