Lucifer Vs Satan

[Sam Or I]

I have read they are actually 2 different beings. What are there differences? Which one was the one which started the "war in heaven"?

[Rye]

Lucifer and Satan are titles, shetain is the adversary (satan) and lucifer was the morning star, the light bringer, a roman title given to special kings and the name of the planet venus.

He's a roman god, son of Aurora, father of Ceyx.

Anyone that would start a war on heaven would be Yahweh's adversary and thus satan. Lucifer may have been the angel's name before the war which turned to satan when the war started. The idea of lucifer being identified with satan came from Medieval christianity.

[Darth Gojira]

The name Lucifer being used for the Satan myth only makes its similarity to the Prometheus myth stronger. I mean, wasn't Prom a bringer of light? Something to chew on, methinks.

[Peregrin Toker]

Lucifer was a minor Greco-Roman god who, for some reason, was identified with The Devil. I don't know why, since they barely have any resemblance - and if the early Christians wanted to mock the romans by identifying one of their gods with their Devil, couldn't they choose a god somebody actually cared about, such as Mercurius or Jupiter ??


The Hebrews identified their proto-devil Sammael with Seth, Baal, Moloch and other mid-eastern deities because of:

1. Vague similarities to these pagan deities
2. Because these pagan deities were the among the chief deities of tribes hostile to the Hebrews

BTW, the Roman god Lucifer was said to be "guardian of the army of the stars" according to a book I have... whatever that means.

[Hethrir]

Lucifer and Satan are titles, shetain is the adversary (satan) and lucifer was the morning star, the light bringer, a roman title given to special kings and the name of the planet venus.

Not quite true. Lucifer is the false morning star. At the time, the people knew that Venus was a planet and not a star, hence the false morning star. Alternate translations: pride, boasting, colour. Lucifer is a distraction from the real thing.

[Eframepilot]

In Isaiah, the king Hezekiah of Judah is compared to Lucifer and described as falling. St. Jerome and following Christian writers misinterpreted this line as a reference to the Adversary, and thus the association of Lucifer with Satan began.

[Rye]

Lucifer was a minor Greco-Roman god who, for some reason, was identified with The Devil. I don't know why, since they barely have any resemblance - and if the early Christians wanted to mock the romans by identifying one of their gods with their Devil, couldn't they choose a god somebody actually cared about, such as Mercurius or Jupiter ??

No, that would be blasphemy, and i doubt the christians were that suicidal. Plus let's not forget, they stole all sorts of stuff from different gods to make theirs seem better, be it zeus'(jupiter) omnipotence, being able to see anywhere or whathaveyou.

The Hebrews identified their proto-devil Sammael with Seth, Baal, Moloch and other mid-eastern deities because of:

1. Vague similarities to these pagan deities
2. Because these pagan deities were the among the chief deities of tribes hostile to the Hebrews

Not only that, but they practically stole the others ideas for a god of darkness (Seth being an obvious source, the difference being, he wasn't really Ra's adversary, he was a different side to the same coin, darkness is needed for light, and light for darkness). I also heard somewhere that shetain, the word that means adversary, which satan mutated from, is actually just a mutation of seth.

As for the "pagan" deities being the deities of tribes that were hostile, that sounds like something they'd do. See what they did to the word demon, they changed it from attendent spirit, or minor god, deified hero etc to "minion of darkness". It would hardly be the first time they tried such a thing.

BTW, the Roman god Lucifer was said to be "guardian of the army of the stars" according to a book I have... whatever that means.

Lucifer is the son of Aurora, the roman personification of the dawn. He presumably shepherds the stars across the sky before his mother comes, since venus was the brightest thing in the sky bar the sun and moon, it got named lucifer, and it heralded the dawn and the passing of night.

[NecronLord]

Not only that, but they practically stole the others ideas for a god of darkness (Seth being an obvious source, the difference being, he wasn't really Ra's adversary, he was a different side to the same coin, darkness is needed for light, and light for darkness). I also heard somewhere that shetain, the word that means adversary, which satan mutated from, is actually just a mutation of seth.

Set wasn't Re's enemy, he was Osiris', then Horus' enemy.

[Rye]

Not only that, but they practically stole the others ideas for a god of darkness (Seth being an obvious source, the difference being, he wasn't really Ra's adversary, he was a different side to the same coin, darkness is needed for light, and light for darkness). I also heard somewhere that shetain, the word that means adversary, which satan mutated from, is actually just a mutation of seth.

Set wasn't Re's enemy, he was Osiris', then Horus' enemy.

I didn't say he was. Re was the sun god, Seth is the god of chaos, embodiment of hostility and even of outright evil. Sound familiar?He's also the god of war, deserts, storms and foreign lands. He's the adversary of Osiris and Horus as you said, and tore out Horus' left eye. Horus responded by removing seth's foreleg and testicles. Seth was forced to return the eye of Horus and was either castrated or killed. In other versions he went to live with the sungod Re, where he became the voice of thunder.

In the Book of the Dead, Seth is called "Lord of the Northern Sky" and is held responsible for storms and cloudy weather.

He protects the sun barge of Re during its nightly journey through the underworld and he fights the snake-like monster Apep. On the other hand, he was a peril for ordinary Egyptians in the underworld, where he was said to seize the souls of the unwary.

The Greeks also equated him with their Typhon.

Still sounds like a model for satan to me.

[The Dark]

Satan as the devil probably came from Zoroastrianism. Prior to the Babylonian exile, the title ha-satan was the only version of the name to appear in the Hebrew Bible, in the Book of Job. In that Book, it merely means "the accuser," or "the adversary," and is a title of a particular position among the heavenly host, not a fallen angel or evil being, but a tester of faith. It is not until after the Exile, when the Hebrews were ruled by the Persians, that Satan become a personal name used for the Devil. This likely came from the Zoroastrian Shaitan, a name for their deity of evil also known as Ahriman.

[Patrick Degan]

Potentially the best movie grudge-match since Freddy v. Jason.

[haas mark]

I have read they are actually 2 different beings. What are there differences? Which one was the one which started the "war in heaven"?

Lucifer was the archangel of Light. And then IIRC, he started the war in heaven, and Satan is the name of THE Devil and Supreme Evil Spirit (TM).

~ver

[Z-Ha-Dum]

They are the same being. The one who started the "war in heaven" was the archangel Helel, which is the Hebrew word for "light bearer." For rebelling against God he was known afterward as the Adversary, or Satan.
Lucifer is the latin translation of "light bearer"

[Rye]

Satan is the name of THE Devil and Supreme Evil Spirit (TM).

Nope. It just means adversary. Everytime someone is someone else's adversary, they are a satan or are acting satanic.

[Darth Gojira]

Not only that, but they practically stole the others ideas for a god of darkness (Seth being an obvious source, the difference being, he wasn't really Ra's adversary, he was a different side to the same coin, darkness is needed for light, and light for darkness). I also heard somewhere that shetain, the word that means adversary, which satan mutated from, is actually just a mutation of seth.

Set wasn't Re's enemy, he was Osiris', then Horus' enemy.

Set also was Re's bodyguard, which made the Horus vs Set debate much more interesting.