Sexuality and Gender

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 05:36pm

This is an essay I wrote earlier, after putting serious thought into the matter of sexuality and gender.

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Sexuality and Gender
By teh Koji

I'm gay. Really, really gay. I'm not just gay I'm super gay. I am so gay I'm almost a fifth as gay as Richard Simmons, that's how gay I am. I like cocks, not pussies; pecs, not tits; boyish faces not girlish faces. But I don't think all guys are sexy. A lot of guys are too manly, too masculine, for my tastes. I also think a number of girls are sexy. Not sexy in the objective 'I can tell when someone is sexy even if I wouldn't boff them' kind of way, I mean some girls are just erection-inducing sexy. But then, if you were to look at them, you'd mistake them for guys, nor girls. I find boyish girls, truly boyish acting and boyish looking girls, to be just as sexy and attract and hard-on inducing as their male counterparts. But then, I'm not gay am I?

Who really is gay or not gay? When I said those girls were boyish, I meant that they looked like boys and acted like boys. But they're not boys, they have tits and pussies. How, then, can I claim that they act and look like boys, if there are girls that look that way? Not all boys look that way, so not all boys are boyish either. So then why are these girls considered boyish? Well, it's because they have characteristics that are generally, and mistakenly, associated strictly with boys. These girls are no more boyish then boys are, because our definition is bad, it presumes that boys act only one way, and girls only act another way. That's wrong, of course. Everyone's encountered very butch girls, or very effeminate guys, its clear that there are no sex-specific personalities or looks. We all know that what's between your legs doesn't determine how you look or act. In previous discussions and debates it was said how hormones can affect your body and mind, but that only touches the surface. Sex is dick-or-pussy (or both, if you're a hermaphrodite). Sex is what's between your legs, which can affect your body and thoughts, but sex can also be entirely unrelated to mental gender.

A boy has a dick. Or so we're told. Boys are boys because boys have dicks, girls are girls because girls have pussies. But boys and girls can be indistinguishable from one another, because of psychological variances, as well as physical variances. So there is no sex-specific trait, how can there be if people of different sexes can sometimes easily pass for someone of the other sex? There may be traits that are almost always attributed to a certain sex, but there are also traits that just are not restricted to either sex.

So how can I be gay? How is it that I'm gay if there are girls that I get aroused by? How can I consider myself gay if there are girls that I would like to bed? I could be dancing in a club, eyeing this really cute guy, and then someone says, "that's a girl" to me. I don't immediately cease thinking "that guy has a really nice ass". Why would I? His ass is still his ass, its just that I'm using the wrong pronoun. The nice form and shape of his body, his face, his nose, his lips, his eyes, his hair, they're still the same sexy things they were before. Only now he doesn't have a dick, where once I thought he did. So I can't be gay if I'm looking at a girl and thinking, "Hot damn, I want to kiss her". I can't be gay if I look at her body and get aroused, if I see her flat chest with actual defined pecs and get the urge to suck on a nipple or two. But she still looks like a guy. She talks and acts like a guy. She is a guy and she isn't a guy all at once, because there are no guys, there are no girls. There's just dick or no dick.

And that's why I'm homosexual. Because I like dick. I like the sex organs that guys have, and I have them too. But I also like the looks guys have, as well as the same looks transposed to a female. She doesn't have a dick, but everything else screams "guy", because there are no guys and there are no girls, there's how you look, how you act, and what's between your legs. I'm homosexual cause I like dick, but am I attracted only to guys? Not at all. That cute boy in the club dancing isn't a boy, but is a boy. That boy has a pussy, that boy is a girl. But I want that boy. I want that girl. Not for dick, there is no dick to want, but for emotional and psychological reasons. I want that girl because she fits my definition of boy, because she excels at being a boy. I want that girl because she is more boy then most boys on the planet. There is, of course, the small matter of him not having a dick.

But that's what strap-ons are for.

~ By Koji, the very gay, yet very ungay, homosexual

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 05:59pm

If a woman ever turns me on, you'll be the first one I tell, koji.

I've had sex with A girl, when I was 16. She didn't arouse me enough to have sex, it was being touched, the sensations of being nekkid that aroused me enough to have sex. She enjoyed it, I was bored to tears, and couldn't cum. The raging hormones of a 16 year old were the only thing that allowed that to happen. Today, I couldn't get a hard on in the presence of a woman if my life depended on it.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 06:07pm

Frank Hipper wrote:If a woman ever turns me on, you'll be the first one I tell, koji.

I've had sex with A girl, when I was 16. She didn't arouse me enough to have sex, it was being touched, the sensations of being nekkid that aroused me enough to have sex. She enjoyed it, I was bored to tears, and couldn't cum. The raging hormones of a 16 year old were the only thing that allowed that to happen. Today, I couldn't get a hard on in the presence of a woman if my life depended on it.

But thats kind of the point. You dont get arroused by women because of how they look, as well as their lack of a penis, right? Me personally I tend to favor some androgeny and lots of boyishness. But there are a lot of girls that look that way, and fit my opinion of cute. Sexually they dont interest me, but if shes got clothes on, i wouldnt be able to tell whats between her legs, so im not attracted to that when i see her.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 06:19pm

Not really. Andogyny is a big turn-off for me. I like my men masculine, very much so.
I can say "That woman is beautiful", but it's the same to me as admiring a sunset. Beautiful, yes, sexually stimulating, no.

Even women bodybuilders, who appear male in all but what genitals they possess, don't do it for me.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 06:28pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Not really. Andogyny is a big turn-off for me. I like my men masculine, very much so.
I can say "That woman is beautiful", but it's the same to me as admiring a sunset. Beautiful, yes, sexually stimulating, no.

But that was what my essay was talking about -- people who dont fit the typical appearance of their sex, people who can and are mistaken for the other sex.

Even women bodybuilders, who appear male in all but what genitals they possess, don't do it for me.

women body builders look distinctly differen from men body builders.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 07:21pm

kojikun wrote:women body builders look distinctly differen from men body builders.

But, often, they don't look distinctly female, either.
And I'm really talking about the hardcore muscle fanatics that lose their boobs to pectoral muscle, not women bodybuilders in general.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 07:27pm

Frank Hipper wrote:But, often, they don't look distinctly female, either.
And I'm really talking about the hardcore muscle fanatics that lose their boobs to pectoral muscle, not women bodybuilders in general.

There are women that dont have boobs to begin with. There are women that look exactly like guys.

Mitth`raw`nuruodo · Post by **Mitth`raw`nuruodo** » 2003-08-08 07:33pm

good read koji. I can't exactly sympathesize, but still, it was interesting to read.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 07:39pm

kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:But, often, they don't look distinctly female, either.
And I'm really talking about the hardcore muscle fanatics that lose their boobs to pectoral muscle, not women bodybuilders in general.
There are women that dont have boobs to begin with. There are women that look exactly like guys.

But they aren't.
My point was that even though they appear masculine, there is no attraction.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 07:51pm

Frank Hipper wrote:There are women that dont have boobs to begin with. There are women that look exactly like guys.

But they aren't.
My point was that even though they appear masculine, there is no attraction.[/quote]

But how can there be no attraction? You said you were attracted to that guy in the club who was infact a girl. I understand that you dont like girls, but when you thought it was a guy, your were attracted!

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 08:03pm

kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:
kojikun wrote:There are women that dont have boobs to begin with. There are women that look exactly like guys.
But they aren't.
My point was that even though they appear masculine, there is no attraction.
But how can there be no attraction? You said you were attracted to that guy in the club who was infact a girl. I understand that you dont like girls, but when you thought it was a guy, your were attracted!

It's the knowing they're chickskas.
Ja, I found a girl attractive once, because at first glance I thought she was a he.
Knowing is everything.
Which is my point. When you see a body-builder wearing a two-piece bikini, it pretty much removes any question of what sex the person is you're looking at.
I believe the same goes for straight guys and transvestites, when they think they're with a girl, it's one thing. But it becomes potentially violent situation when they find out it's a guy. I think we've all heard a version of that story.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-08-08 08:06pm

-shakes head- Ill never understand how you cant dig chicks.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 08:16pm

Frank Hipper wrote:It's the knowing they're chickskas.
Ja, I found a girl attractive once, because at first glance I thought she was a he.
Knowing is everything.

Why? What changed, besides your knowledge?

Tell me, frank, what about guys do you like?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 08:25pm

kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:It's the knowing they're chickskas.
Ja, I found a girl attractive once, because at first glance I thought she was a he.
Knowing is everything.
Why? What changed, besides your knowledge?

Tell me, frank, what about guys do you like?

Your first question puts the cart before the horse, it was the knowledge that changed everything.
As for the second question, I'd rather not shock the delicate sensibilities of our fellow forumites in a discussion of turn-ons.

I'll PM you.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 08:27pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Tell me, frank, what about guys do you like?

Your first question puts the cart before the horse, it was the knowledge that changed everything.[/quote]

Ok, but what CHANGED? Why, besides the lack of a penis, did that guy/girl cease being attractive?

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-08-08 08:36pm

That was cool koji.

Frank Hipper wrote: As for the second question, I'd rather not shock the delicate sensibilities of our fellow forumites in a discussion of turn-ons.

Fuck 'em. Spill it right out in the open.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-08 08:37pm

Well it seems frank flies in the face of your pet hypothesis

Frank... PM me as well. I plan on doing a bit of research (experimentation) on sexual attraction. Chiefly the roll that scent plays in it... I am trying to see if we as humans use scent in determing what gender a person is... so please, do tell.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-08 08:38pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:It's the knowing they're chickskas.
Ja, I found a girl attractive once, because at first glance I thought she was a he.
Knowing is everything.
Why? What changed, besides your knowledge?

Tell me, frank, what about guys do you like?
Your first question puts the cart before the horse, it was the knowledge that changed everything.
As for the second question, I'd rather not shock the delicate sensibilities of our fellow forumites in a discussion of turn-ons.
I'll PM you.

Frank. This is a board filled with nothing but twisted degenerates. You can say it in the open, no one will care.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 08:39pm

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 08:42pm

kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:
kojikun wrote:Tell me, frank, what about guys do you like?
Your first question puts the cart before the horse, it was the knowledge that changed everything.
Ok, but what CHANGED? Why, besides the lack of a penis, did that guy/girl cease being attractive?

How the hell do you put something as abstract as attraction into words?
I saw she was a girl, girls do not attract me. The knowing she wasn't a fellow teenage boy made that first spark of interest evaporate, instantly. It was an instinctual response to new information.
How else can I put it?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 08:45pm

Frank Hipper wrote:How the hell do you put something as abstract as attraction into words?

I can do it.

I saw she was a girl, girls do not attract me. The knowing she wasn't a fellow teenage boy made that first spark of interest evaporate, instantly.

did she LOOK like a girl?

It was an instinctual response to new information.
How else can I put it?

When you think of that girl, do you think she acts like other guys? Do you think she could tie you up and make you her bitch and fuck you hard up the ass hard enough to make you scream?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-08 09:00pm

kojikun wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:How the hell do you put something as abstract as attraction into words?
I can do it.

You may be able to do it with the "what", but make me a believer with the "why".

I saw she was a girl, girls do not attract me. The knowing she wasn't a fellow teenage boy made that first spark of interest evaporate, instantly.
did she LOOK like a girl?

At second glance, yes. Like I said, I saw her across a dark, crowded dance floor. This was 19 years ago, BTW.

It was an instinctual response to new information.
How else can I put it?
When you think of that girl, do you think she acts like other guys? Do you think she could tie you up and make you her bitch and fuck you hard up the ass hard enough to make you scream?

Not even remotely.

This entire conversation is painting an idea I have in the most vivid colors imagineable.
Human sexuality is as complex, and varied, as humans themselves. It's something we'll try to understand for as long as we exist, but I think understanding, COMPLETE understanding, will remain elusive.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 09:04pm

Frank Hipper wrote:You may be able to do it with the "what", but make me a believer with the "why".

At second glance, yes. Like I said, I saw her across a dark, crowded dance floor. This was 19 years ago, BTW.

Well theres another problem.

Not even remotely.

again, a problem.

This entire conversation is painting an idea I have in the most vivid colors imagineable.
Human sexuality is as complex, and varied, as humans themselves. It's something we'll try to understand for as long as we exist, but I think understanding, COMPLETE understanding, will remain elusive.

I think you didn't understand my essay, frank.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-08 09:21pm

Just out of curiousity... What do you mean by pseudo rape?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-08 09:27pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Just out of curiousity... What do you mean by pseudo rape?

imagine wrestling with sex.