Music: Similaraties between Metal and Classical

[Lord Pounder]

Maybe i'm going nuts. But today on the bus home from work i was listening to my mp3 player. The 1st track that made me notice the similarity between metal and classical was Creed's Bullets. Listen to the 1st rift. The second song was Muse's In Your World. Am the only one who noticed this? Am i just imagining it?

[Joe]

Sure there are similarities. Look at Metallica, for example, we all know that Mozart and Beethoven just used the E and F chords over and over and over again throughout their entire careers and never did anything else.

OK, this was just an excuse to bash Metallica.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Metallica and classical music in the same line?
Well, they are both music....

Still, I have never liked them, and I found out why when discussing them with one of my roomates, who was in a band. (he can read and compose written music, and has a lot of college credit in the music area) He said that Metallica doesn't just play chords, but plays "dischords." That is to say they would "make up" chords and strumm right along.The harmonics don't blend right, because of the distortion effects.
The resulting notes grate on my, and other western classicaly trained brains.
They just seem harsh, and don't blend properly, like "real" chords do.

Off key singing, and playing, make my hair stand up, and my teeth itch.


Kind of like "Janes addiction"

[jenat-lai]

John Cage and Microtonal Music...

not all classical music is made up of such bland chordal structures as Mozart....

[jegs2]

Sure there are similarities. Look at Metallica, for example, we all know that Mozart and Beethoven just used the E and F chords over and over and over again throughout their entire careers and never did anything else.

OK, this was just an excuse to bash Metallica.

It's for that reason that I liked them so much (their older stuff). Also like Baroque music like Bach and Handel.

[haas mark]

I don't remember the song, but Nirvana goes well with Mozart's "Requiem" (I found this out by accident). Even more so, there are many similarities between classical and techno.

~ver

[Kelly Antilles]

John Cage and Microtonal Music...

not all classical music is made up of such bland chordal structures as Mozart....

You need to take a Music Appreciation class.

[Shinova]

This may come off as very very strange, but personally I think Techno is the closest to classical today's music gets.

To me, sharing a same chord does not make a song similar to classical.

Techno, on the other hand, have no lyrics. That's only the small part though. Many songs, like classicals, make the listener feel or imagine what the title suggests.

There's one techno song called "Escape" that really makes it feel like an escape.


Hence, I think techno is the closest to classical. Also that most techno must rely entirely on its instrumental melodies, harmonies, whatnot to convey their music unlike others, which have lyrics.

[haas mark]

This may come off as very very strange, but personally I think Techno is the closest to classical today's music gets.

To me, sharing a same chord does not make a song similar to classical.

Techno, on the other hand, have no lyrics. That's only the small part though. Many songs, like classicals, make the listener feel or imagine what the title suggests.

There's one techno song called "Escape" that really makes it feel like an escape.


Hence, I think techno is the closest to classical. Also that most techno must rely entirely on its instrumental melodies, harmonies, whatnot to convey their music unlike others, which have lyrics.

I, as well, feel this way. And besides.. how many metal mixes of Carmina Burana are you going to find? :P

Really, though, many times in techno music, as Shinova said, will you find all these different times where classical instruments will be synthesized, in the first place, but then you have all kinds of intermingling chords and runs and all kinds of stuff.

~ver

[Miles Teg]

Metallica and classical music in the same line?
Well, they are both music....

Still, I have never liked them, and I found out why when discussing them with one of my roomates, who was in a band. (he can read and compose written music, and has a lot of college credit in the music area) He said that Metallica doesn't just play chords, but plays "dischords." That is to say they would "make up" chords and strumm right along.The harmonics don't blend right, because of the distortion effects.

The actual term is a "dissonance", which is actually used regularly in classical music (since the time of Bach, see below). A dissonance, though not harmonious, is actually a chord. Basically, a dissonance is a chord with an intentionally wrong note (though that note is chosen to still blend with the chord, versus just plain sounding like shit). However, the term "wrong note" is misleading, because a dissonance is not considered to be incorrect or even displeasing. In fact, the ability to use dissonances well is considered more difficult for a composer, since it requires a lot deeper knowledge of music theory than sticking to traditional chords.

Your roomate is right is saying that Metallica uses dissonance regularly (which seems fitting, considering the style of music they play). Not liking that is fine, but is certainly not something that implies lack of musical ability for those that use them.

The resulting notes grate on my, and other western classicaly trained brains.
They just seem harsh, and don't blend properly, like "real" chords do.

This is just plain ignorant. Dissonance originated with classical music, and any "classically trained brain" would certainly recognize this. (As for the exact origins of the dissonance, look no further than the great master of classical music himself, Bach. He originated and popularized the use of dissonance.).

I don't contend that Metallica doesn't "grate on you" , but it's most likely not because of their use of dissonance.

-Miles Teg

[aerius]

This may come off as very very strange, but personally I think Techno is the closest to classical today's music gets.

To me, sharing a same chord does not make a song similar to classical.

Techno, on the other hand, have no lyrics. That's only the small part though. Many songs, like classicals, make the listener feel or imagine what the title suggests.

There's one techno song called "Escape" that really makes it feel like an escape.


Hence, I think techno is the closest to classical. Also that most techno must rely entirely on its instrumental melodies, harmonies, whatnot to convey their music unlike others, which have lyrics.

Take a listen to any of Metallica's instrumental songs, especially "Orion" which has everything you mentioned in abundance. A nice driving guitar melody and solo, followed by a bass solo and dual harmonized guitar leads, followed by a climactic ending.

As for getting moods across, Joe Satriani IMO is a master of writing guitar instrumentals that sound like they have words and everything. "Summer Song" and "Always with you, Always with me" are great examples of this.

[jenat-lai]

John Cage and Microtonal Music...

not all classical music is made up of such bland chordal structures as Mozart....

You need to take a Music Appreciation class.

I think not... I very much appreciate, even to the point of buying over 150 CD's of orchestral and operetic music. Such composers as Schoenberg, Messien, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Carl Orff, Steve Reich, Carl Vine, Lucciano Berio and Stravinsky adorn my collection and I listen to them quite regularly.

My latest purchase is this piece by John Adams.

In fact I was thinking how odd it is people think these composers compose 'ugly' music. which 'has no point'. It has much point, it is progressive and I believe it is important that art music be continued to be composed, and not composed like Beethoven did in 1780... but develop and find new ground, move fowards in methods of expression. John Cage isn't a favourite of mine, but he is an extreme example of how music is so much more than a C major chord in root position followed by a G major chord in second inversion. The boredom of blandness for the sake of 'not offending the ear' is to music what veganism is to fine cuisine. As Charles Ives said "Sit down and take your dissonance like a man!"

The existance of a dissonant chord defines consonance and gives the music MOTION. Without motion, the music is completley static and bland. A stick of celery instead of an encilada with tobasco sauce, sour cream and salsa. Chords give music colour, and to have simple Major Root position chords, scale degrees 1, 3, 5 over and over again... becomes sickeningly bland after a remarcably short time. Music needs some muscle to truly inspire.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well Queensrych, and Hollowpoint both started with classical music.

[Hethrir]

This may come off as very very strange, but personally I think Techno is the closest to classical today's music gets.

To me, sharing a same chord does not make a song similar to classical.

Techno, on the other hand, have no lyrics. That's only the small part though. Many songs, like classicals, make the listener feel or imagine what the title suggests.

There's one techno song called "Escape" that really makes it feel like an escape.


Hence, I think techno is the closest to classical. Also that most techno must rely entirely on its instrumental melodies, harmonies, whatnot to convey their music unlike others, which have lyrics.

I'm not very knowledgable on Classical, but Baroque is very much similar to real metal (not utter trash). One of my current projects is to try to trace music from J.S.Bach to modern music. I've got no hard evidence yet, but i suspect Bach is the root of all rock.

[Crayz9000]

If you want an interesting combination of classical and heavy metal, check out Therion...

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I always thought Metal was closer to traditional Celtic.

[Saurencaerthai]

Seeing as all music is related, I'm not surprised at all. There are ties between, classical, metal, jazz, folk, techno, brazillian, and oh so many other styles of music. So many that you might as well go for several degrees in music history.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I keep hearing Leadbelly and Robert Parker in Rap, come to think of it one of my grunge and metal loving co-workers is barrowing my burn of a blues 78rpm. (I wonder what RIAI thinks about shit that totally predates them)

I own and burned a copy of the 78 album because those old ceramic records are TOO fragile, and you have to take really good care of them. So I burned the album so I can hear it without destroying it.

[Peregrin Toker]

If you want an interesting combination of classical and heavy metal, check out Therion...

Or, for that matter, Bal-Sagoth...

BTW, the book "Running With The Devil" - an indepth analysis of the metal genre - emphasizes that metal bands have a certain tendency to be more inspired by some componists than others. (I just can't remember which)

I always thought Metal was closer to traditional Celtic.

There are Metal bands with strong folk influences - such as Skyclad, Finntroll, Vintersorg and Cruachan - but in general, Traditional Celtic influences in metal are quite subtle. Or so it appears to me.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Seeing as all music is related, I'm not surprised at all. There are ties between, classical, metal, jazz, folk, techno, brazillian, and oh so many other styles of music. So many that you might as well go for several degrees in music history.

It's true -- Brazilian music is directly descended from Celtic music. No, really.

[Saurencaerthai]

If you want an interesting combination of classical and heavy metal, check out Therion...

Or, for that matter, Bal-Sagoth...

BTW, the book "Running With The Devil" - an indepth analysis of the metal genre - emphasizes that metal bands have a certain tendency to be more inspired by some componists than others. (I just can't remember which)

I always thought Metal was closer to traditional Celtic.

There are Metal bands with strong folk influences - such as Skyclad, Finntroll, Vintersorg and Cruachan - but in general, Traditional Celtic influences in metal are quite subtle. Or so it appears to me.

BAL SAGOTH!!! FINNTROLL! WOOT!!!

[Saurencaerthai]

Seeing as all music is related, I'm not surprised at all. There are ties between, classical, metal, jazz, folk, techno, brazillian, and oh so many other styles of music. So many that you might as well go for several degrees in music history.

It's true -- Brazilian music is directly descended from Celtic music. No, really.

All music utilizes rhythm, so they are close in that respect. Plus, there is a good chance that Celtic has some African influence in it, tying Brazillian and Celtic together.

[Kelly Antilles]

Okay guys... why don't we do this. ALL music, no matter what kind, classical, metal, country, rock, blues, jazz, etc. all comes from gregorian chant. Period.

[Crayz9000]

Nah, that's not far enough back. Gregorian Chant has its roots in Byzantine Chant...

[Kelly Antilles]

Okay, Chant.... just chant.