DSII in UFP

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-08-09 12:06pm

Maybe the Starfleet Corps of Engineers can't recreate all Imperial tech, but surely they could finish the unconstructed sections using scaled up industrial replicators: unless certain substances like durasteel and duracrete has a quantum signature in their respective compounds, a replicator set at the molecular resolution should create them.

After all, they made things as large as Spacedock...and Starbase 74 is an up-sized version of that class station...

I'm sure what little tech the UFP can reverse-engineer and retrofit to existing superstructures could make a lot of Starfleet hardware obsolete, and thus available for replicator feed stock.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-09 12:25pm

Enola Straight wrote:Maybe the Starfleet Corps of Engineers can't recreate all Imperial tech, but surely they could finish the unconstructed sections using scaled up industrial replicators: unless certain substances like durasteel and duracrete has a quantum signature in their respective compounds, a replicator set at the molecular resolution should create them.

Wow, what a lovely pile of bullshit.

First, there are no "scaled-up industrial replicators" capable of making starships, never mind components for a Death Star. That's why we can see people in spacesuits building ships in spacedock.

Second, you are claiming that durasteel is a chemical compound based on mundane materials. Justify this claim.

Third, you are ignoring the vast quantity of material required, which is well beyond the Federation's ability to deliver.

After all, they made things as large as Spacedock...and Starbase 74 is an up-sized version of that class station...

Spacedock is a pebble compared to the mountain that is DS2.

I'm sure what little tech the UFP can reverse-engineer and retrofit to existing superstructures could make a lot of Starfleet hardware obsolete, and thus available for replicator feed stock.

You're assuming that Imperial technology is based upon the same atomic elements as Federation technology.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-08-09 01:07pm

Spacedock is a pebble compared to the mountain that is DS2

LOL! Or perhaps a very minor rounding error.

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-08-09 04:05pm

They may not necessarily have to recreate the exact compounds...just use contemporary materials to close up the exposed areas. Perhaps Feddie duranium and tritanium isn't as good as Imperial material, but certainly its better than nothing.

I certainly don't think that upscaled industrial replicators is bullshit...how much of Starfleet vessels, stations, etc. are constructed with components NOT replicated? True, there seems to be a practical upper limit to the mass and/or volume a replicator can create a component, but components are made to be modular...make the parts, and stick'em together.

It'll just take a few decades, maybe

.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-09 07:01pm

Enola Straight wrote:They may not necessarily have to recreate the exact compounds...just use contemporary materials to close up the exposed areas. Perhaps Feddie duranium and tritanium isn't as good as Imperial material, but certainly its better than nothing.

As long as you concede that they're probably not going to start replicating millions of cubic kilometres of durasteel-based structure.

I certainly don't think that upscaled industrial replicators is bullshit... how much of Starfleet vessels, stations, etc. are constructed with components NOT replicated?

Warp core hatches are made using conventional methods. That's not even a particularly large item.

True, there seems to be a practical upper limit to the mass and/or volume a replicator can create a component, but components are made to be modular...make the parts, and stick'em together.

A bunch of little I-beams is no substitute for one big one.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-08-09 07:47pm

The Feds should be able to get it working, meaning it can move and fire weapons.

The first hurdle would be learning the language. Sure, some is in English, but most of the labeling will be in the native SW language. That shouldn't be too difficult, given that there should be a lot of writing to look at and analyze. But it'd still take time.

Getting through security would be another hurdle, but not necesarially impossible. It's not like tripping an unauthorized access alarm is going to send a security team down to detain them. However, it'd still probably take them a long time before they can gain any significant access to the computers. (Likely they'd start by accessing some stormtrooper's account with password "12345" and work from there.) This would probably be the most time-consuming hurdle, and would be required before they could acheive authorization for things such as firing the superlaser and perhaps using the hyperdrive.

However, they'd probably never want to fire the superlaser and would want to limit hyperdrive usage. This is because both of those require enormous amounts of fuel, but they have no way of refueling the station!

The Federation would have a new defense and tactical weapon. The weapons and power of the weapons would all but assure victory for the Federation in any battles it is used, but moving it to other systems would only be done if absolutely necessary (that is, unless they can jump thousands of times without refueling). If kept in one system, it'd effectively have unlimited fuel. (I don't see how occasional use of the turbolasers against Trek level opponents would ever match up to a single firing of the superlaser.)

Depending on the documents stored on the station's computers (educational documents explaining some of the superphysics of SW), the Federation may eventually be able to gain a partial understanding of Imperial technology, but it'd take a long time before they understand enough to create similar technologies or apply technologies on the scale the Empire has.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-08-09 08:04pm

Mad wrote:However, they'd probably never want to fire the superlaser and would want to limit hyperdrive usage. This is because both of those require enormous amounts of fuel, but they have no way of refueling the station!

Actually, according to the ICS, the DS has no fuel tanks. That means they don't need to refuel the station.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-09 08:16pm

YT300000 wrote:
Mad wrote:However, they'd probably never want to fire the superlaser and would want to limit hyperdrive usage. This is because both of those require enormous amounts of fuel, but they have no way of refueling the station!
Actually, according to the ICS, the DS has no fuel tanks. That means they don't need to refuel the station.

However, the DS has some kind of complex-mass ballast associated with it, and perhaps that's not visible. It is undoubtedly finite, though.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-08-10 07:59am

At the very least they should get large stocks of working blasters to equip redshirts with. After a few years they may be able to use the TIEs (there should be fairly extensive documentation on board including maintainance proceedures and suchlike). As for the station itself they wouldn't be able to finish it but they may be able to at least use it, although only after a fashion with minimal weapons batteries in use and large sections basically unused. They don't have the manpower to effectively use it

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-08-10 08:03am

Soulman wrote:At the very least they should get large stocks of working blasters to equip redshirts with. After a few years they may be able to use the TIEs (there should be fairly extensive documentation on board including maintainance proceedures and suchlike). As for the station itself they wouldn't be able to finish it but they may be able to at least use it, although only after a fashion with minimal weapons batteries in use and large sections basically unused. They don't have the manpower to effectively use it

Where there are blasters there may be Stormtrooper armor also. Which may funally lead to the development of Starfleet Infantry.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-08-10 08:05am

Darth Fanboy wrote: Where there are blasters there may be Stormtrooper armor also. Which may funally lead to the development of Starfleet Infantry.

Yeah, they could probably equip tens of divisions of troops with the stuff on board (probably far, far more though).

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-08-10 01:10pm

[starfleet dipshit officer] But... that would lead to conflicts.. OH MY GOD!! No way!! There will never be an infantry!1!!!!1![/starfleet dipshit officer]

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-08-10 03:11pm

They could just swop out phaser rifles for E-11s, afterall they have a stun feature so can do everything that a haser does. The heavier weapons would probably be used as well , even if thier expressly kept for use againt the Borg.

This could make a good fanfic actually, the presence of the DS-II would have interesting effects on the ST universe.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-08-10 03:53pm

Soulman wrote:They could just swop out phaser rifles for E-11s,

But what happens when they run out of ammo? Sure, there'd be a supply of power packs, but the Federation would likely have no way of making new ones.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-08-10 04:10pm

Mad wrote:
Soulman wrote:They could just swop out phaser rifles for E-11s,
But what happens when they run out of ammo? Sure, there'd be a supply of power packs, but the Federation would likely have no way of making new ones.

Can't they be recharged? There has to be billions in the Death Star, anyway, it would take them a very, very long time to exaust the DS' supplies.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-08-10 06:24pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Mad wrote:
Soulman wrote:They could just swop out phaser rifles for E-11s,
But what happens when they run out of ammo? Sure, there'd be a supply of power packs, but the Federation would likely have no way of making new ones.
Can't they be recharged? There has to be billions in the Death Star, anyway, it would take them a very, very long time to exaust the DS' supplies.

Just you wait for them to try figuring out Tibanna gas

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-10 07:07pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:The Feds might get lucky if they can read the labeling on the controls. After all, we saw in ANH that the Empire uses English labeling on their tractor beam control systems.
The English switch in ANH was so the auudience had a clue of what obi wan was doing and the only time English was ever used if Im remembering right.

Exactly. I remember hearing that Lucas wanted ANH to feature Basic and Arubesh exclusively, but executives at Fox insisted that he feature English for the tractor beam label in that scene, because they were afraid that audiance members might have forgotten what exactly Kenobi was doing there.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-08-12 12:13am

Darth Wong wrote:The Feds might get lucky if they can read the labeling on the controls. After all, we saw in ANH that the Empire uses English labeling on their tractor beam control systems.

If they manage to stumble onto the main bridge and discover a variety of consoles with instrumentation relating to something called "superlaser", the realization of the Death Star's true nature will dawn on them very quickly.

Though that does leave the unanswered question of: "What would they test the laser on (once they figured out the controls of the station) to see how "super" it really is?"

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-08-12 12:20am

jumps up and down exitedly

"Hey! I found it! Here's the main power to the tractor beam! Says it right here in plain English!"

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-12 12:21am

jegs2 wrote:jumps up and down exitedly

"Hey! I found it! Here's the main power to the tractor beam! Says it right here in plain English!"

Unfortunately, our intrepid explorer would soon discover that jumping up and down excitedly on a narrow ledge with no guardrails overlooking a seemingly bottomless chasm turns out to be a very bad idea ...

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2003-08-12 07:32am

jegs2 wrote:jumps up and down exitedly

"Hey! I found it! Here's the main power to the tractor beam! Says it right here in plain English!"

... said the redshirt and vanished in a DEEP chasm...

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-08-12 06:40pm

You have to wonder what would happen in the Star Trek universe if this happened, say deep in Federation territory in an area that they could keep it secret.

Presumably, the Death Star had a few functional turbolaser batteries on it. I don't recall seeing functional guns on DS2 during the surface run before the attack on the main reactor.

Assuming they did, and that a UFP ship could be built that could take the recoil from a Turbolaser gun. (Kinda obvious what the function of a Turbolaser gun is) and figure out how to fire it, that one UFP ship with proper shielding and support could over-run there enemies. Put another near the wormhole, and even if the Prophets turned on ya, you'd never have to worry about the Dominion.

Hell, put one in orbit over earth, and the borg are no longer a threat.

Also, if the Death Star had warheads on board, they'd be the biggest short term jackpot.

Consider: A missile is pretty much a missile. You just have to built a launcher for it. In this case, the UFP would probably just have to design a torpedo and launcher that could hold the Imperial warhead.

This would probably require alot of time to figure out, but not compared to the other systems.

Starfleet ships armed with Imperial Proton Torpedoes and Heavy Rockets vs the Borg.

Ah, the possiblities

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-08-12 09:20pm

Given enough time, the Feddies might be able to come up with a warship armed with a single spinal-mount heavy turbolaser...even if they can't actually reverse-engineer the gun itself, they could build a ship around an existing HTL taken from the Death Star.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-08-12 09:49pm

*promptly steals idea for fanfic that may never get written at this rate*

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-08-13 11:10pm

Solauren wrote: Assuming they did, and that a UFP ship could be built that could take the recoil from a Turbolaser gun. (Kinda obvious what the function of a Turbolaser gun is) and figure out how to fire it, that one UFP ship with proper shielding and support could over-run there enemies. Put another near the wormhole, and even if the Prophets turned on ya, you'd never have to worry about the Dominion.

The chief problem there isn't the bracing, it's the fact that with AMRE in effect the ship would go flying. We saw what depressurizing the hanger could do in Cause and Effect