Domes atop ISD

[Vertigo1]

[Hmm, so we have Trekkie Dee and Trekkie Dum, eh?

No, that would be DarkStar and his other personality, which oddly enough, is just as stupid as the other one.

Concession accepted! (sorry, I just had to say it again. )

[jegs2]

[Hmm, so we have Trekkie Dee and Trekkie Dum, eh?

No, that would be DarkStar and his other personality, which oddly enough, is just as stupid as the other one.

Concession accepted! (sorry, I just had to say it again. )

So, you are Darkstar with another name and avatar? Greetings.

[Isil`Zha]

[Hmm, so we have Trekkie Dee and Trekkie Dum, eh?

No, that would be DarkStar and his other personality, which oddly enough, is just as stupid as the other one.

Concession accepted! (sorry, I just had to say it again. )

So, you are Darkstar with another name and avatar? Greetings.

gah, if you are going to insult, at least make it better than just plain lame

[Cpt_Frank]

As appears in the ISD thread...

And that thread is not this thread... and I've got a secret for you... if you're argument lacks any evidence whatsoever, yours is the one that's hollow.

Your secret is one which you should take to heart, since the only "evidence" you've put forth that the domes are shield generators is "your observations" of a scene in a movie. That does not equate to fact by anyone's definition.

His observations are interpretations. Not facts, though.

As for old crap thread: see
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=1868

same only with poll.

[Slartibartfast]

Okay I posted my own observation there. To me it's the most obvious conclussion.

Could you post a more obvious link to a diagram or supporting documentation?

Nope. I'm using deductive logic from observed behavior. (or something like it, since I couldn't recognize deductive logic if it bit me ass)

It's simply: people think that by destroying the dome, they bring down the shields. I think that you can deduce that the shields are down, by observing any part of the bridge tower getting blasted.

[His Divine Shadow]

I believe they are sensors, thats just so obvoius, also did anyone note the lack of globes on the Acclamator huh?

[Isil`Zha]

I believe they are sensors, thats just so obvoius, also did anyone note the lack of globes on the Acclamator huh?

And the Acclamator would have to have the same type of shield emmitor because...?

[Vertigo1]

I believe they are sensors, thats just so obvoius, also did anyone note the lack of globes on the Acclamator huh?

Maybe cuz the Acclimator is shieldless?

(Note: For you anal retentive warsies out there lacking a sense of humor, I was joking. This post is not meant to be taken seriously.)

[nightmare]

1) ONE of The Executor's globes was destroyed *after* it's shields was downed. It has many more than two.

2) An ISD is shown in ROTJ with bridge on fire, domes ok.

3) ISDs doesn't have as many globes as they do number of shields. (6?)

4) Other ships doesn't have such domes, but they do have shields.

5) Geoffry Mandels blueprint

6) STAR WARS Incredible Cross Sections tells they are targeting systems.

7) The MF clinging to the back of the tower to vanish proves they are some kind of sensors. Just look at the angle.

X-Wing The Bacta War

Anyone believing the globes are shield generators have the deductive abilities of a rock.

[Isil`Zha]

1) ONE of The Executor's globes was destroyed *after* it's shields was downed. It has many more than two.

2) An ISD is shown in ROTJ with bridge on fire, domes ok.

3) ISDs doesn't have as many globes as they do number of shields. (6?)

4) Other ships doesn't have such domes, but they do have shields.

5) Geoffry Mandels blueprint

6) STAR WARS Incredible Cross Sections tells they are targeting systems.

7) The MF clinging to the back of the tower to vanish proves they are some kind of sensors. Just look at the angle.

X-Wing The Bacta War

Anyone believing the globes are shield generators have the deductive abilities of a rock.

Had to throw in that insult at the end there... which is slightly reminicent of a fault by association fallacy. I've never said that it was for the entire ships shields, but mearly for the bridge. And I never said that it could be destroyed before the shield was down.

[Master of Ossus]

Had to throw in that insult at the end there... which is slightly reminicent of a fault by association fallacy. I've never said that it was for the entire ships shields, but mearly for the bridge. And I never said that it could be destroyed before the shield was down.

I'm confused. Are you still saying that they are shield generators? Or do you now agree that they are sensors?

[His Divine Shadow]

And the Acclamator would have to have the same type of shield emmitor because...?

And the ISD would have an inferior shield location why?

And there are contradicting evidence and lo and behold, the stuff that claims it's shield domes are written by the idiots of the SW writing universe like KJA and Stackpole.

[Lord Edam]

1) ONE of The Executor's globes was destroyed *after* it's shields was downed. It has many more than two.

irrelevant. When the globe was destroyed does not allow us to determine what the globe does.

2) An ISD is shown in ROTJ with bridge on fire, domes ok.

irrelevant. Shields can be dropped/drained and later re-established. You can remove the shields without destroying the shield equipment. This could be one of those examples.

3) ISDs doesn't have as many globes as they do number of shields. (6?)

secondary shield emitters, or the globes are able to project multiple independent shields from the same location

4) Other ships doesn't have such domes, but they do have shields.

Irrelevant. Other ships don't use the exact same shield system.

"by this logic", some sports cars have their exhausts in chrome pipes down the side of the car - does this mean any car without chrome pipes down the side is lacking an exhaust?

5) Geoffry Mandels blueprint

Geoff Mandel has stated his 1978 Imperator class blueprints were just something he did in his spare time. They were in no way sanctioned by Lucas(/film/books/arts).
(http://www.trek-wars.info/mandel.eml.txt)

In other words, they are no more admissable in these debates than that fine piece of fanfic, Portal.

6) STAR WARS Incredible Cross Sections tells they are targeting systems.

Star Wars Incredbile Cross Sections does not label the domes at all. It labels the array between the domes.

7) The MF clinging to the back of the tower to vanish proves they are some kind of sensors. Just look at the angle.

No, the Mf clinging to the back of the tower to vanish shows that wherever the sensors are they can't see the back of the tower. The only way to conclude from this the domes are sensors is if you start off assuming the domes are sensors.

X-Wing The Bacta War

X-wing Iron Fist

Anyone believing the globes are shield generators have the deductive abilities of a rock.

Or are simply willing to accept the truth without resorting to fanart, sophistry and speculation

Of your eight reasons why the domes are sensor domes, one is an outright lie (SW:ICS), one is just fanart(Mandel), three are irrelevant, one requires you to assume what you are claiming, and one is about as meaningful as me pointing out "star wars" proves they are shield domes.

Care to try again?

[His Divine Shadow]

It's not just "fanart" there is also a quote from a novel I just found:

The Bacta War:
Pg. 321 : They flitted over the massive ship's surface, shooting concussion missiles at gunnery towers and sensor domes.

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno which of the bacta war books it was, it might have been written by stackpole, if so he's denser than I thought.

Though I hear Aaron Allston also wrote some books in that series.

[Lord Edam]

It's not just "fanart" there is also a quote from a novel I just found:

The Bacta War:
Pg. 321 : They flitted over the massive ship's surface, shooting concussion missiles at gunnery towers and sensor domes.

So there are sensor domes, and there are shield domes. Your quote does not say which is where or where the attacking fighters were at the time of your quote.

In the Behind The Magic CD-ROM (disk 2, modelling section) there are "behind the scenes" photographs taken from the Lucasfilm archives specifically labelled as models of a shield dome, showing the dome that is blowin up in RotJ.


If you want a quote war, try these from chris o'farrell:


X-Wing: Wraith Squadron.

Wraith squadron have two people in Tie Fighters escorting an Imperial ISD, pretending to be Imperial fighters. Their job is to when the signal is given, target the bridge of the ISD and cripple the ship by killing off its command crew. They also use the opportuntiy to destroy the shield generators as they target structures on the bridge. Relevent quotes follow.

"...She inverted her TIE fighter, rolling over backward as though she were in a dogfighting loop,but moving not one meter. A momnt later,the Implacable was abefore her, above her, upside down. She brought up her targting sensor, zoomed it in on the Implacables bridge a klick and a half away, and fired..."

"...Trigit pointed at the chief communiations officer. 'Get the auxilary bridge to transfer bridge functions to the consoles here.' The deck shuddered faintly under his feet. 'Are our shields up?'
'Checking'. The officer brought up a diagnostics readout. He winced. "Sir they took out the shield generator domes when they hit the brdige.' "

That is an explicit source saying the domes are shield generators.

Next.

X-Wing: Iron Fist.

Here there are two Executor class Star Destroyers in battle. Wraith Squadron's plan is to fake the destruction of two starfighters near the SSD, allowing them to sneak onto the bridge, land ala the Falcon and hide until the NR comes in the next battle, kill the domes and leave the two ships naked to a starfighter bombing run. The first fighter piolted by Shalla is not a crashed ship but a wraith who launched from the SSD and is sneaking along the ship up to the tower.

"...She powered up again, ran through an abbreviated checklist and brought her interceptor back into motion. From here, she had to climb up the hull to the SUper Star Destroyers command tower.It was a more difficult approach, as the ships hull, which seemed comparatively smooth from a distance, was in the area of the command tower, a trickyterrain of graduated terraces. Yet her terrian following flying was fast an skilled and within momnet,she settled neatly - and very delicately- into place between the deflector shield dowes atop the command tower.."

-Explicitly says that the domes are shield domes on an SSD's command tower.

"...Dia had just vaped one of hte fighters, attering the top of its hull with a barragew that popped open the access hatch, filled the interior with light and cast the remains of its piolt adrift when wedge heard the transmisiion. 'Parasite two, go'. Startled he checked over his sensor board. Taht code meant that one of the Hawk Bats had asuccessfuly pretended to crash upon the hull of the second Super Star Destroyer and was in a position to destroyits deflector shield domes.But all the Hawk Bats still appeared on his screen..."

-Also explicitly says that the domes are shield domes on an SSD's command tower.

"Ahead just over the artificial hill of Iron Fist's command tower, he could see the top of one of hte ships shield projector domes"

-Also explicitly says that the domes are shield domes on an SSD's command tower.

The next series of quotes are in the later engagement, when the two SSD's have jumped to deep space...into the middle of a NR fleet which looks inferior, but have the ace in the hole of the fighters ready to bring down their shields.

"But the domes to the right and left of her suddenly pulsed with power, bringing their might shields up over the SUper Star Destroyer and she decided the ships crew had other things to worry about"

- Explicitly says that the domes are generating the shields.

"...She calculated their rate of approach bassed on sensor data. When they were thirty seconds short of firing range, she activated her repulsorlifts,bringing her interceptor up a mere meter above the deck of Razor's Kiss and well back from the domes. She swung toward the starboard shield projector dome and fired.
The dome blew appart in an impresive display of slaming has and metal shards; she heard shrapnel bounce off her hull. She rotated and fired again, oblitering the second projector with similar finality..."

"...'Razors Kiss reports catastrophic failure of topside shield generators!'
Zsinj stared at the captain as though the man had suddenly grown a Devaronian's horns and ateeth. 'Tell me your lying'.
The captian shook his head helplessly..."

"Wedge's sensor board showed the second Super Star Destroyers topside shields evaporating. It displayed the information without emotion, without understanding of how that fact made the piolts hearts jump"

- Interesting note here. The destruction of both topside domes on the bridge only shut down the SSD's topside shields, not its bottom shields.

"...Not yet daring to commence powered flight, he brought his targeting system up and tried to bracket the distant shield projector dome..."

-Also explicitly says that the domes are shield domes on an SSD's command tower.

"...In spite of the smoke bluring his vission, Wedge saw the tiny green needle on Iron Fist's hull below him, a long tentative streak that hit hte port side shield projector dome, hit it twice, hit it a third time and then the dome exploded..."

"The bridge rocked, its light dimming,fragments of ceiling descending into the crew pit.
Zsinj clambered to his feet. 'What happened?'
The captian had goen from cheeet to despair in just a second. 'We've lost the post-sie shield projector.We're down to half shield strength above the midline.' "

-Note that this SSD only lost one of its domes, the other was intact. The destruction of one dome only led to 50% shield degridation shipwide above the midline. However that does not realy conflict with ROTJ. Unlike the Executor which had been under heavy bombardment and quite possibly were under 50% already (hence the loss of the dome would lead to full shield loss), the Iron fist had not realy been under very heavy attack as yet.

[Slartibartfast]

-Note that this SSD only lost one of its domes, the other was intact. The destruction of one dome only led to 50% shield degridation shipwide above the midline. However that does not realy conflict with ROTJ. Unlike the Executor which had been under heavy bombardment and quite possibly were under 50% already (hence the loss of the dome would lead to full shield loss), the Iron fist had not realy been under very heavy attack as yet.

Actually if overall shields were reduced to 50%, and you destroyed one of two generators afterwards (regardless whether they are in the domes or not), the final shield figure would be something like 25%. (who's saying that they destroyed the one that was fully functional and the other one was completely drained already?)

[nightmare]

Anyone believing the globes are shield generators have the deductive abilities of a rock.

Had to throw in that insult at the end there... which is slightly reminicent of a fault by association fallacy. I've never said that it was for the entire ships shields, but mearly for the bridge. And I never said that it could be destroyed before the shield was down.

An observation and a statement. It was not personally addressed nor intended so, and it may be considered only an insult if you a) feel that it addresses your personal opinion, and b) fell insulted by it.

It was in fact not a rebuttal to you. I have never read your arguments. Nor is it a fallacy to address points. I gave simply gave evidence proving that the "domes" can not be shield generators/projectors, addressing this topic in general.

[Kuja]

They probably are shields. In every game i've palyed, the Sds and TIEs defend those domes like rabid dogs.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Game mechanics are not canon.

[Kuja]

I know, butI felt there was enough of a connection to warrent a post.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

No, there isn't.

Besides, it's an old, dead issue.

[Kuja]

I'll make my own opinions, thank you.

[Isil`Zha]

Game mechanics are not canon.

Neither is EU.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

EU is canonical, it's just that Absolute Canon is higher.

But what the fuck do you know, anyway? You're from SB.