MASSIVE FUCKING BLACKOUT

[Enigma]

Strange how much this echoes the 1965 blackout-same area, cascade failure....
CNN had an cell phone interview with a lady in Toronto last night, she was saying how everyone was treating intersections as 4-way stop signs, being as cooperative towards each other as possible. It hit just as rush hour did, what a nightmare....
The way people in New York were being helpful to each other is also very cool, there was a civilian directing traffic this morning. Funny.
Any reports of looting? If there was any, they aren't mentioning it in what I've seen.

In Ottawa, there were 3 armed robberies and 22 lootings.

[Dalton]

Hey all, I'm back in the saddle. Power came back at around 7am, or so my mom tells me, and things are fine. I called Aron Kerkhof and he promptly said to me "Can I make an entrance or what?"

Anyway, I'm doing fine on this end. New York pulled together just like it did on 9/11, everyone helping everyone else out. My mother was stuck in the city for nearly six hours because of this, but she got home after she managed to catch a bus out and get a ride from a friend. I didn't hear of any looting, but there were plenty of sirens, probably due to people who don't know that candles can start fires

So yeah, 8pm and we were playing Rummy by candlelight outside. Later on, when the moon rose, it was like a scene out of a fantasy novel; everything was dark and the moon cast a pale blue glow over the island.

And thanks for your concern. It's very much appreciated

[Pablo Sanchez]

How can the free market "fail" when it doesn't exist?

He didn't refer to it as a free market, only one which has been partially or mostly deregulated. A subtle distinction, perhaps, but an important one.

In any case, the extent of deregulation has been exaggerated, at least in the U.S.; only the generation side of the industry has been deregulated, and the blackout seems to have been caused by a failure in the transmission system, which is certainly not deregulated.

The "problem" with the transmission system is that it was designed to connect a system of individually self-sufficient generators so that they could draw an emergency supply in case of a failure in the plants.

It was not made to allow the private owners to shut down half their power plants to save on costs and constantly pull what they needed from elsewhere.

[Darth Wong]

With all due respect, that's bullshit. You are trying to distract from the failure of the free market in this situation by arguing that it should have been made even more free.

How can the free market "fail" when it doesn't exist?

Goddamned black/white fallacy. Deregulation did not TIGHTEN regulations, so we have moved in the direction of the free market. Is it completely free? No, but that doesn't mean fuck-all to me, and you're just wasting time defending dogma.

Do not play fucking rhetorical games with me after the shit I've been through because of this idiocy.

In any case, the extent of deregulation has been exaggerated, at least in the U.S.; only the generation side of the industry has been deregulated, and the blackout seems to have been caused by a failure in the transmission system, which is certainly not deregulated.

The transmission system is overloaded because of deregulation, because private companies will never build excess capacity since it will make them lose money. What part of this do you not comprehend?

[kojikun]

I would just like to say: fuck the Niagara-Mohawk Electric Company. Fuck them straight up their asses.

You mean because they were the only power plant still operational throughout the entire thing?

[Darth Wong]

Anyway, I'm doing fine on this end. New York pulled together just like it did on 9/11, everyone helping everyone else out. My mother was stuck in the city for nearly six hours because of this, but she got home after she managed to catch a bus out and get a ride from a friend. I didn't hear of any looting, but there were plenty of sirens, probably due to people who don't know that candles can start fires

We had some of that too; why can't people learn that the safest way to keep some long-term low-level lighting in your house at night during a situation like this is to use those chemical lights they sell for camping trips?

[Admiral Valdemar]

What is interesting is how big this blackout was, the crew on the ISS must've had a good view of the north-eastern seaboard when the lights died, eery as it was.

The key problem is money, as ever. Due to the liberalisation of the power service in the US and other Western nations, power has been getting in less and less supply. It's a Catch-22 in the end, the power companies can either reopen or build more stations and have excess juice to be on standby in the event of a huge surge in power usage which may not be that common, or they can remain playing the game close and keeping just enough power to meet current demands.

Either way, it's a bloody farce because the companies are going to get bollocked for having too much power and thus selling it cheaper and paying more themselves for it or they'll have to pay comensation to industry for any major blackouts that occur in the future.

I intend to build a small, yet powerful, magnetohydrodynamic power system in the garage. That way I can have all the energy I'll ever need at the flip of a switch and laugh at those without A/C and central heating.

[Sea Skimmer]

BTW, I suspect that it will turn out that the cascade failure was caused by one or two lines going down. Their load would have been shunted onto the next available line, which would go down in turn, and you can see where this would eventually lead. I believe that's what happened during the big 1965 blackout, although it wasn't supposed to happen again.

The current theory being thrown around is that 500 megawatts ended up on a 300-megawatt loop of high-tension lines in Southern Canada. That overload started the whole thing by knocking four plants out. It's also why Detroit and the surrounding areas on both sides of the boarder wont have power for several more days.

1965 was because a single huge transformer blew out as I recall.

[kojikun]

We had some of that too; why can't people learn that the safest way to keep some long-term low-level lighting in your house at night during a situation like this is to use those chemical lights they sell for camping trips?

Or learn to not fucking knock over things that are on fire. Idiots, seriously. How can you be so stupid to put a flame somewhere easilly toppled? ugh

[Enigma]

BTW, I suspect that it will turn out that the cascade failure was caused by one or two lines going down. Their load would have been shunted onto the next available line, which would go down in turn, and you can see where this would eventually lead. I believe that's what happened during the big 1965 blackout, although it wasn't supposed to happen again.

The current theory being thrown around is that 500 megawatts ended up on a 300-megawatt loop of high-tension lines in Southern Canada. That overload started the whole thing by knocking four plants out. It's also why Detroit and the surrounding areas on both sides of the boarder wont have power for several more days.

1965 was because a single huge transformer blew out as I recall.

What ever caused the blackout, knocked out Ontario's 30 power plants. From what I heard on the news only 4 of Ontario's 11 nuke plants and 9 of it's 19 coal fired plants are currently up and running. They're generating over 13 GW with another 4GW on the way. But it is still far from the 23.5GW that the province used just before the blackout.

[Raptor 597]

Good too hear everyone is alright. And this reminds me of during the hurricane last year. Except mine was out for five days or so I was pissed when some got power before me but I had found out I had got it pretty soon.

[Enigma]

We had some of that too; why can't people learn that the safest way to keep some long-term low-level lighting in your house at night during a situation like this is to use those chemical lights they sell for camping trips?

Or learn to not fucking knock over things that are on fire. Idiots, seriously. How can you be so stupid to put a flame somewhere easilly toppled? ugh

Uhm... My best friend's cousin died yesterday because of that. He and his sister are mentally slow. When their mother went to sleep, the brother lit a candle because his sister was afraid to sleep in the dark. Both fell asleep, but woke up when the fire was raging. The sister ran out, and I think that what woke the mother up, but it was too late for the mother to save him. I liked that kid. We were friends and he looked up to me. He's dead and I'm fuckin pissed off.

[Sea Skimmer]

What ever caused the blackout, knocked out Ontario's 30 power plants. From what I heard on the news only 4 of Ontario's 11 nuke plants and 9 of it's 19 coal fired plants are currently up and running. They're generating over 13 GW with another 4GW on the way. But it is still far from the 23.5GW that the province used just before the blackout.

Nuclear plants suck for this kind of situation, unfortunately, restarting there cores after a quick shutdown can take 24 hours and more power then the backup generators onsite can provide. Coal plants also need lots of external power to get going and quite a few hours to heat up their steam. That's one reason why the whole restart is taking so long; they've got to shunt what power is available, mostly from hydro power, to the completely cold thermal stations to get them running and generating. And this all has to happen in step with the matching of the power to supply to the load required.

[aerius]

I didn't even make it home from work last night. I'd driven to work and from what I was hearing on the radio everything between my home and work was jammed and not moving. Hell, the street in front of my store was a damn parking lot, which was made even worse by people trying to get in & out of the gas station across from my work. I ended up borrowing a bike and riding the 5 minutes to my GF house and staying the night there after grabbing some lights and batteries from my store. Yes there's a story that goes along with that.

We had a nice barbecue in their backyard and drank a lot of beers while relaxing on the porch. We had a few battery operated radios and lots of lights so we were doing just great, but we had to eat all the ice cream before it melted. For us it was like being up at the cottage right in the comfort of home, and with all the lights out we saw more stars than we've ever seen from anywhere within 150km of Toronto. Beautiful.

Power came back on around 2am, but cable was out till about 4:30. Everything's working right now but they're talking about rolling blackouts.

[Trytostaydead]

ROFLMAO!!

MCATS are tomorrow! Hahaha, all those east-coasters must be in a PANIC right now.

[Darth Wong]

ROFLMAO!!

MCATS are tomorrow! Hahaha, all those east-coasters must be in a PANIC right now.

Hey idiot, buy a clue: laughing at other peoples' misfortune makes you an asshole, not a comedian. One person on this board has actually had a friend DIE because of this, and you're laughing it up? Fuck you.

[Trytostaydead]

ROFLMAO!!

MCATS are tomorrow! Hahaha, all those east-coasters must be in a PANIC right now.

Hey idiot, buy a clue: laughing at other peoples' misfortune makes you an asshole, not a comedian. One person on this board has actually had a friend DIE because of this, and you're laughing it up? Fuck you.

I didn't know that, sorry. I was merely reflecting what a lot of people who're prepping for the MCATs tomorrow are feeling. I guess we were too wrapped up in curve distributions and the possibility it might be tipped in our favor that we didn't consider anything else. Truly sorry :-\

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am glad all of you made it through the blackout ok... Living in Arizona, I was unaware of it until I got home...

And Mike, I enjoyed your rant

It is stuff like this that make me think power, water and other basic survival needs(especially in Arizona where you will die very quickly without either) should be socialized.

[Drooling Iguana]

I would just like to say: fuck the Niagara-Mohawk Electric Company. Fuck them straight up their asses. Anyway, my story:

I was at work, sitting behind a cash register at an amusement park when the power went out. There was a rollercoaster full of people right outside the store, and of course it got stuck, although it was closer to the ground than it should have been. I had no idea what to do, the cash registers wouldn't work, so I had to insist on exact change and write down records of the transactions on a paper towel. I finally got to leave work early, found out my parents had been sitting in the car in the parking lot for an hour, thinking I'd get out even earlier. We went out to eat (the Lake George tourist trap area had power) and when we got home the power was back on (about 8:45 PM).

How can the power going out cause a roller coaster to stop? Roller coasters coast, hence the name. They only use electric power to get up that first hill.

For once in my life I'm glad I live in New Brunswick.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Like 11th September, I bet no one anticipated this thing happening, not after supposedly learning from such mistakes in the past.

If things could get worse, can you imagine what would happen? We're talking about airports, hospitals, utilities and more essential services being affected and probably long enough to mean they buy more fuel for their own generators which usually only last a week or so.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I am glad all of you made it through the blackout ok... Living in Arizona, I was unaware of it until I got home...

And Mike, I enjoyed your rant

It is stuff like this that make me think power, water and other basic survival needs(especially in Arizona where you will die very quickly without either) should be socialized.

I had heard that NYC was running close to being out of water due to pumping stations having their generators use all their fuel up. People seem to think gas and water and sewage will still work without power, that may be so in the short term, but long term blackouts could cause serious problems for even the basic commodities of life.

[Sea Skimmer]

I had heard that NYC was running close to being out of water due to pumping stations having their generators use all their fuel up. People seem to think gas and water and sewage will still work without power, that may be so in the short term, but long term blackouts could cause serious problems for even the basic commodities of life.

New York City's water is pumped by gravity, up to the 32'd floor anyway. Buildings higher then that would have water problems since water is normally pumped to roof tanks. However the cities sewers are not all gravity, evidently some subways got flooded with sewage, and for some time it all was being dumped untreated into the rivers and ocean.

[Sea Skimmer]

How can the power going out cause a roller coaster to stop? Roller coasters coast, hence the name. They only use electric power to get up that first hill.

The emergency breaks cut in if the system loses power, few coasters are completely inert.

[aerius]

However the cities sewers are not all gravity, evidently some subways got flooded with sewage, and for some time it all was being dumped untreated into the rivers and ocean.

Near Elora in Ontario they were dumping sewage right into the Grand River. There were people rafting and tubing in the river and they had to get them all out before they started dumping the crap into the river. That place must smell like shit today.

[phongn]

1965 was because a single huge transformer blew out as I recall.

A relay circuit had not been correctly set, so when something like 350MW poured through the line it panicked and shut down (when it had more capacity then that).

End result was a cascade similar to what just happened.