Bioethicists, eat your heart out!

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-14 01:57pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

Cloning Yields Human-Rabbit Hybrid Embryo

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 14, 2003; Page A04

Scientists in China have, for the first time, used cloning techniques to create
hybrid embryos that contain a mix of DNA from both humans and rabbits,
according to a report in a scientific journal that has reignited the smoldering
ethics debate over cloning research.

More than 100 of the hybrids, made by fusing human skin cells with rabbit
eggs, were allowed to develop in laboratory dishes for several days before
the scientists destroyed them to retrieve so-called embryonic stem cells
from their interiors. Although scientists in Massachusetts had previously
mixed human cells and cow eggs in a similar attempt to make hybrid
embryos as a source of stem cells, those experiments were not successful.

Researchers said yesterday they were hopeful that the rabbit work would
lead to a new and plentiful source of embryonic stem cells for research and,
eventually, for medical use. But theologians and others decried the work as
unethical.

Some wondered aloud what, exactly, such a creature would be if it were
transferred to a womb to develop to term.

The vast majority of the DNA in the embryos is human, with a small
percentage of genetic material -- called mitochondrial DNA -- contributed by
the rabbit egg. No one knows if such an embryo could develop into a viable
fetus, though some experiments with other species suggest it would not.

Congress has been mulling legislation for years that would outlaw certain
human cloning experiments, with some opposed to any creation of cloned
embryos for research and others sympathetic to research uses as long as
the embryos are not allowed to grow into cloned babies. No law has been
passed, however, in part because of researchers' warnings that the
proposed restrictions are so far-reaching that they would hobble
development of new medical treatments.

The new work, led by Hui Zhen Sheng of Shanghai Second Medical
University, appears in the latest issue of Cell Research and was highlighted
in a news report in the journal Nature. Cell Research is a peer-reviewed --
if little-known in the United States -- bimonthly scientific journal affiliated
with the Shanghai Institute of Cell Biology and the Chinese Academy of
Sciences. Some researchers yesterday said they were frustrated by the
lack of details in the paper.

The team said it retrieved foreskin tissue from two 5-year-old boys and two
men, and facial tissue from a 60-year-old woman, as a source of skin cells.
They fused those cells with New Zealand rabbit eggs from which the vast
majority of rabbit DNA had been removed. More than 400 of those new,
fused entities grew into early embryos, and more than 100 survived to the
blastocyst stage -- the point at which coveted stem cells begin to form.

The approach could help scientists wishing to mass-produce human
embryos as sources of human embryonic stem cells. Stem cells can morph
into all kinds of tissues and may be able to reverse the effects of various
degenerative diseases. But to make cloned embryos, scientists need both
normal body cells -- such as skin cells -- and egg cells, which have the
unique capacity to "reprogram" the genes in body cells and make them
behave as though they were embryo cells.

Because human egg cells are difficult and costly to retrieve from women's
ovaries -- and because human egg retrieval poses risks to the donors --
scientists have been wanting to know whether animal eggs may serve as
well. A major question has been whether the remnants of mitochondrial
DNA that typically remain in an animal egg would be compatible with the
nuclear DNA contributed by the human cell.

The new work suggests that the answer to that question is yes, scientists
said -- though with a number of caveats. Most important, researchers said,
the paper stops short of proving beyond a doubt that the stem cells
retrieved from the hybrid embryos are truly capable of growing for long
periods of time in lab dishes, and that they can turn into every known kind
of cell.

Even so, said Douglas Melton, a Harvard University cell biologist and cloning
expert, the work is a big advance because it offers a new system for
exploring the mechanisms by which egg cells get adult cells to act in
embryonic ways. That could provide deep insights into human development,
wound healing and tissue regeneration.

He noted that although this is the first creation of a human "chimeric"
embryo -- a reference to the fabulous chimera of Greek mythology, which
had a lion's head, a goat's body and a serpent's tail -- it is not the first time
scientists have blended human cells into lab animals. Some mice, for
example, have been endowed with human brain cells or portions of the
human immune system for research.

The Chinese work, Melton said, is "extremely interesting, and I hope they
pursue it."

R. Alta Charo, an associate dean of law and professor of bioethics at the
University of Wisconsin at Madison, noted that the work passed muster with
Chinese ethics authorities, who had demanded, among other things, that
the embryos not be allowed to grow more than 14 days.

"Short of putting one of these embryos into a woman's body for
development to term, I don't think this work harms anyone alive," Charo
said.

She said the experiments should force opponents of cloning research to
identify more clearly than they have until now exactly where they would
draw the line against human embryo cloning -- in effect: How human does
an embryo have to be to have the moral standing these advocates confer
on embryos?

Richard Doerflinger, of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said he felt
certain that the human-rabbit embryos were human enough to deserve
protections.

"I think because all the nuclear DNA is human," Doerflinger said, "we'd
consider this an organism of the human species."

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-14 02:24pm

I wonder how long such hybrid clones would be able to survive.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-08-14 03:50pm

GYAH! The rabbits are coming to take over the world!!!

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2003-08-15 06:42pm

International peer review is sadly lacking in the Chinese scientific community. There has been many cases of Chinese grad students who returned from U.S. or European countries just to publish plagiarized articles. And from the article:

The new work, led by Hui Zhen Sheng of Shanghai Second Medical
University, appears in the latest issue of Cell Research and was highlighted
in a news report in the journal Nature. Cell Research is a peer-reviewed --
if little-known in the United States -- bimonthly scientific journal affiliated
with the Shanghai Institute of Cell Biology and the Chinese Academy of
Sciences. Some researchers yesterday said they were frustrated by the
lack of details in the paper.

I want detail and confirmation from Western scientific community before I can believe this has truly been done.

I am glad, though, that there are countries out there whose research programs aren't as ethically crippled as the US.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-15 07:27pm

Newtonian Fury wrote:I am glad, though, that there are countries out there whose research programs aren't as ethically crippled as the US.

Cower before the might of the Chinese supersoldier! MWAHAHA

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-15 07:56pm

kojikun wrote:
Cower before the might of the Chinese supersoldier! MWAHAHA

*A 10,000-dollar artillery barrage wipes out a company of multi million dollar supersoldier's*

Ultimate infantry is overrated. The machine gun and the shell don't give a fuck how tough you are, it's all soft and fleshy to steel.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-08-15 08:11pm

Heh, i have an idea what koji would use this technology for

.

Now all we need is a human/orange hybrid, and phase 3 can get under way.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-08-16 12:58am

I wonder how long it'll be before someone produces an evil killer bunny.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2003-08-16 01:13am

or a human/furry clone

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-16 04:30am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Ultimate infantry is overrated. The machine gun and the shell don't give a fuck how tough you are, it's all soft and fleshy to steel.

*cue WW2 East Front footage of Katyushas sending their rockets whining into the air*

That line is practically begging for a movie for it to be put in.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-16 04:34am

No some japanese corp will finally market the Cabbits to all of the Tenchi/pokemon fans..

fortunatly electric eel gense and the ability to morph into a space craft will not be includable...

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-08-16 07:03am

Furry porn is suddenly going to get much more realistic.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-08-16 09:50am

Spyder wrote:Furry porn is suddenly going to get much more realistic.

My biggest concern here is that this is not as far-fetched as it might first appear. There isn't much genetic variance between mammalian species, after all..

Of course, it would make the fundies, uh, howl.

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-08-16 10:32am

Anyone care to draw a picture of what theses things might look like?

Is there any indication that these could survive if they were allowed to gestate?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-08-16 10:57am

Man, if they confirm this, I can just see the fundies now....

Hehehehe.

Hey, at least it's a way around that stupid 'stem cell research' pan.

Sorry, they are rabbit cells, go fundie yourself

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-08-16 05:06pm

Yuri Prime wrote:Anyone care to draw a picture of what theses things might look like?

Is there any indication that these could survive if they were allowed to gestate?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-17 03:28am

Oh please it can't be any worse then my sister feeding my niece constant images of Posh SPice and Britney S.?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-08-17 04:08am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Spyder wrote:Furry porn is suddenly going to get much more realistic.
My biggest concern here is that this is not as far-fetched as it might first appear. There isn't much genetic variance between mammalian species, after all..

Of course, it would make the fundies, uh, howl.

It's going to find it's way into porn somehow. It would be wise for people to start stockpiling bile so they have plenty to expel once Japan gets ahold of it.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-17 12:43pm

Spyder wrote:
It's going to find it's way into porn somehow. It would be wise for people to start stockpiling bile so they have plenty to expel once Japan gets ahold of it.

How about we stockpile neutron bombs instead?

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-08-17 02:22pm

They're not trying to make furries. If you'd read the article you would see that all the nuclear DNA is human. All that the rabbits are contributing are the egg cells. This is just another way to clone humans. The bioethical probelm here is that they seem to want to do this just so they can abort the clones and use their tissues for scientific or medical purposes. None of these clones will survive, but if they did they would be completely normal humans aside from having lagomorph mitochondria.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-08-17 06:42pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
How about we stockpile neutron bombs instead?

That works.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-08-17 06:51pm

Raxmei wrote:They're not trying to make furries. If you'd read the article you would see that all the nuclear DNA is human. All that the rabbits are contributing are the egg cells. This is just another way to clone humans. The bioethical probelm here is that they seem to want to do this just so they can abort the clones and use their tissues for scientific or medical purposes. None of these clones will survive, but if they did they would be completely normal humans aside from having lagomorph mitochondria.

And raise a shitload of hell when they start breeding with the general public. I sure as hell don't want lagomorph mitochondria in my cells, I'm sorry.

But I don't see why everyone's so against stem cell research, anyways. Obviously everyone forgets what the hell the Placenta is, and that most abortions are committed by God...

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-08-17 07:47pm

Vorlon1701 wrote:
And raise a shitload of hell when they start breeding with the general public. I sure as hell don't want lagomorph mitochondria in my cells, I'm sorry.

But I don't see why everyone's so against stem cell research, anyways. Obviously everyone forgets what the hell the Placenta is, and that most abortions are committed by God...

It's not evil when God kills babies.