The Death Star and AotC

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-08-14 03:52pm

Sorry if it's been done before. If it has, can you please point me to a link?

Anyway, how can one reconcile Bevel Lemelesk (sp) and Qwi Xux with the knowledge they didn't create the Death Star from AotC? I'm not doubting they might've created the other stuff (no matter how disagreeable it may be), but we know they didn't do the Death Star. The Genosians did, and Dooku gave it to Palp.

So, how much does this throw the EU in disarray? Was there some kind of rationalization made, or does one just throw it out as being trumped by canon?

Personlly, I'd prefer the latter (I hate Qwi Xux and her "romance" with Wedge immensely), but I was wondering what the general consenses (as if such a term can be applied on this board) was/is?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-08-14 04:06pm

The Geonosians came up with the basic concept and the preliminary design, but the Maw team refined the design. I believe that the New Essential Guide to Characters also says that Lemelisk was hired by Geonosians to work on the Death Star project.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-08-15 06:39pm

Yip and according to Darksaber the emperor had no, absolutely no idea of the entire concept of the DeathStar.

Not that there was one technology about it, that was really new.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-15 07:19pm

According to the AOTC movie (haven't read the book), the Geonosians may have had nothing more than a concept of the Death Star. That doesn't mean it was fully designed.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-15 07:22pm

Howedar wrote:According to the AOTC movie (haven't read the book), the Geonosians may have had nothing more than a concept of the Death Star. That doesn't mean it was fully designed.

That is very likely the case; Friedman's Design histories are filled dozens of basic designs the USN created but never developed to the point at which they could be constructed. Star Wars designers they should be cranking out all sorts of plans.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-08-15 07:26pm

Someone once posted a unifying explanation at SB. I want to say it was IP, but I don't think he is registered there.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-08-15 07:43pm

FTeik wrote:Yip and according to Darksaber the emperor had no, absolutely no idea of the entire concept of the DeathStar.

Not that there was one technology about it, that was really new.

Wrong, he knew what Tarkin was doing but he pretended he didn't.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-08-16 01:01am

Why assume htat because we have a spherical planetoid-like object with what appears to be a beam "eye" emitter that its just a Death Star? Its not like the Death Star is a rare or unsuual construct (they constructed what, at least half a dozen of them, not to mention things like worldcrafts), and its not like they havent got a good grasp of the technology behind it.

Besides, any decent project has more than one name or person attached to it by default, even if one name is attributed "more" than others. I believe such is frequently the case for examples like the A-bomb and the manhattan project (how many of THEIR scientists do you know of? I can only recall maybe Oppenheimer and Einstein, and thats even discounting people who did the research LEADING to the A-bomb)

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-08-16 01:45am

The Death Star Plans (aka the Hot Potato) are the most easily obtained object in the entire EU. You can't take a step without bumping into someone who worked on them, refined them, ordered them or stole them.

The unified history: Rath Sienar comes up with the idea for an immense moon-sized battlestation and shows it to a young Tarkin. After the debacle at Zonama Sekot, Tarkin steals credit for the plans and presents them to Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. Palpatine apparently passes the plans to the Geonosians (thru Nute Gunray or Dooku), who further them with the aid of engineer Bevel Lemelisk. The Geonosians give the plans to Dooku at the end of AOTC who apparently returns them to Palpatine. Evntually he gives them back to Tarkin, who finds Lemelisk, sends him off to the new Maw Installation with Daala and Qwi Xux, and oversees the construction of a prototype. The plans are sent back to Tarkin (again!) who begins construction of the actual Death Star at Despayre.

The Rebels eventually get wind of this and steal the plans at least 3 different times: Kyle Katarn nabs a copy, Bria Tharen picks up another and Farlander is involved with intercepting a third copy near the Cron Drift (from the original X-Wing game). The plans are transmitted to the Tantive IV during the Rebels' first victory but the ship is quickly identified, probably because it had 78 coded transmissions arriving all at once from every corner of the galaxy. Leia gives 'em to R2-D2, yadda yadda yadda...

The Death Star blows up. Palpatine executes Lemelisk and assigns him to build a second, better Death Star (though oddly enough the superlaser of the 2nd was already being worked on and the 2 Mistryl in the Cantina were involved in a plan to steal it. Whatever). That one gets trashed too. But the plans have also been stolen by Jabba the Hutt, with his intelligence superior to the Rebels and Empire, and seven years later Durga obtains them and builds the Darksaber.

Keep in mind that Lucas could easily show the beginning stages of construction of the 1st Death Star in Episode III (why put the plans in Ep. II otherwise?) which would completely mash the whole Maw Installation backstory.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-08-16 06:14am

Anything to mash the shit out of a KJA concept would be fucking fine by me.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-08-16 07:12am

Eframepilot wrote:Palpatine executes Lemelisk and assigns him to build a second, better Death Star

ROFL, this phrase is really really funny.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-08-16 09:24am

My theory is that the plans where supplied to the Geonosians so they could test the things design flaws with the possability of constructing it when the Empire came to being. As for Palpy not knowing of the Maw facility, that could be true. After the fall of the Geonosians Palpy may have entrusted the manufacture and implementation to Tarkin and left him sole descresion to do as he needed.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-08-16 12:15pm

Howedar wrote:According to the AOTC movie (haven't read the book), the Geonosians may have had nothing more than a concept of the Death Star. That doesn't mean it was fully designed.

Indeed. If you observe it carefully, their version has large exterior tanks and pylons.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-16 01:29pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:I can only recall maybe Oppenheimer and Einstein, and thats even discounting people who did the research LEADING to the A-bomb)

Slight OT: Einstein wasn't on the Manhatten Project.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-08-16 01:30pm

Ender wrote:Someone once posted a unifying explanation at SB. I want to say it was IP, but I don't think he is registered there.

I did.

Crossover Maniac threw a fucking cow though.

Eframepilot wrote:Keep in mind that Lucas could easily show the beginning stages of construction of the 1st Death Star in Episode III (why put the plans in Ep. II otherwise?) which would completely mash the whole Maw Installation backstory.

Only if he's a moron who wants the audience to believe somehow the thing is kept secret and built for 20+ years and the second much bigger one take six months.

Additionally, it could just be a homage or hint toward the later movies. It is just a very brief scene, and I think it is quite premature for everyone who's been assuming it is THE foreshadowing detail of AOTC for Ep. III.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-08-16 01:34pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I did.

Crossover Maniac threw a fucking cow though.

Did you keep a link? Or is it similar to what Eframepilot posted?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-08-16 01:43pm

I can't sign on to Spacebattles right now. My screenname is Imperatorus, however.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-08-16 03:12pm

The Geonosians only make mention of building the Death Star, not who designed it. Perhaps the plans were only there so that the Geonosians could begin construction. If that is the case, the origins and design of the Death Star are still intact.

I would prefer to wait until after episode III comes out before we speculate further.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-08-17 01:31am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Eframepilot wrote:Keep in mind that Lucas could easily show the beginning stages of construction of the 1st Death Star in Episode III (why put the plans in Ep. II otherwise?) which would completely mash the whole Maw Installation backstory.
Only if he's a moron who wants the audience to believe somehow the thing is kept secret and built for 20+ years and the second much bigger one take six months.

Additionally, it could just be a homage or hint toward the later movies. It is just a very brief scene, and I think it is quite premature for everyone who's been assuming it is THE foreshadowing detail of AOTC for Ep. III.

There's always the "years of secretive construction" in ANH novelisation...........

Anyway, its my opinion that the Death Star has the same purpose as the Ring in LOTR. It is the object that unifies the entire series together and act as the focus for the characters adventures. I mean, look at it. LOTR is essentially "The Adventures of Bilbo" and "The Adventures of Frodo", with the overall arc of "The Return of the King".(Yes, I know that there are actual "books" in the story arc that depict their adventures but I can't recall the name}

We have a somewhat similar story arc in SW. The Adventures of Obi-wan Kenobi, The Adventures of Luke Skywalker and the overall arc of The Sons of Suns, Anakin Skywalker.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-08-17 01:33am

That's one of the stupidiest things I've ever known a human being to conceptualize.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-17 01:33am

You mean the Death Star's the saga's MacGuffin...?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-17 01:38am

PainRack wrote:Anyway, its my opinion that the Death Star has the same purpose as the Ring in LOTR. It is the object that unifies the entire series together and act as the focus for the characters adventures. I mean, look at it. LOTR is essentially "The Adventures of Bilbo" and "The Adventures of Frodo", with the overall arc of "The Return of the King".(Yes, I know that there are actual "books" in the story arc that depict their adventures but I can't recall the name}

We have a somewhat similar story arc in SW. The Adventures of Obi-wan Kenobi, The Adventures of Luke Skywalker and the overall arc of The Sons of Suns, Anakin Skywalker.

Yes. And just like Star Wars, the Ring was destroyed in the first book and totally absent from the second book, so a new Ring was partially constructed in the third book

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-08-17 01:52am

Darth Wong wrote:
PainRack wrote:Anyway, its my opinion that the Death Star has the same purpose as the Ring in LOTR. It is the object that unifies the entire series together and act as the focus for the characters adventures. I mean, look at it. LOTR is essentially "The Adventures of Bilbo" and "The Adventures of Frodo", with the overall arc of "The Return of the King".(Yes, I know that there are actual "books" in the story arc that depict their adventures but I can't recall the name}

We have a somewhat similar story arc in SW. The Adventures of Obi-wan Kenobi, The Adventures of Luke Skywalker and the overall arc of The Sons of Suns, Anakin Skywalker.
Yes. And just like Star Wars, the Ring was destroyed in the first book and totally absent from the second book, so a new Ring was partially constructed in the third book

That's explained by funding and story constraints.GL could only make a single movie and thus, the story arc had to be closed in just one movie.
We do have access to GL orginal scripts, and in it, the DS wasn't destroyed until the climatic battle at Coruscant.

Granted, this isn't a technical description of why the DS was in AOTC, but storywise, it could explain the predominance of the need to have a Death Star in the arc.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-08-17 01:57am

Or it could just mean that Superweapons are 1337. And they're good ways to impose fear and order (through fear).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-08-17 02:01am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Crossover Maniac threw a fucking cow though.

Now there is a shocker.