Living in the Bible Belt...

[Illuminatus Primus]

"Yeah, and the Swastika's just a religious symbol"

It was "and the Swastika is just a Tebetan good luck symbol!"

You mean?

[Son of the Suns]

It might be true that it is racism, but I don't consider it harmful unless it affects other people. Many people in the South do live mostly among their own race, whether it be by choice or their financial condition. However I've lived in areas everyone was black and I've lived in areas that are entirely white, yet I was never treated any differently when I lived in area where I was the only white kid, and my few black friends where I live now are treated no differently than any white or latino or asian, whether it be on the job or anywhere else. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but hating eachother simply does not define the people of the South like it used to, and saying that it does is simply incorrect. Just because your wife's parents were a bunch of raciest assholes does mean everyone, or even the majority, of people in the South are like that.

[Darth Wong]

It might be true that it is racism, but I don't consider it harmful unless it affects other people.

It affects people by narrowing their choices, dumb-ass.

Many people in the South do live mostly among their own race, whether it be by choice or their financial condition. However I've lived in areas everyone was black and I've lived in areas that are entirely white, yet I was never treated any differently when I lived in area where I was the only white kid, and my few black friends where I live now are treated no differently than any white or latino or asian, whether it be on the job or anywhere else.

Did you try marrying a black girl?

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but hating each other simply does not define the people of the South like it used to, and saying that it does is simply incorrect.

The fact that it's not as bad as it was before does not mean it's OK.

Just because your wife's parents were a bunch of raciest assholes does mean everyone, or even the majority, of people in the South are like that.

If they believe that "different kinds should live separately", then they are cut from precisely the same cloth.

[Son of the Suns]

It might be true that it is racism, but I don't consider it harmful unless it affects other people.

It affects people by narrowing their choices, dumb-ass.

Well, assuming we are talking about self-segregation, then they themselves have choosen to limit their choices.

Many people in the South do live mostly among their own race, whether it be by choice or their financial condition. However I've lived in areas everyone was black and I've lived in areas that are entirely white, yet I was never treated any differently when I lived in area where I was the only white kid, and my few black friends where I live now are treated no differently than any white or latino or asian, whether it be on the job or anywhere else.

Did you try marrying a black girl?

Nope, but as I said before my cousin did, and did so with the familie's blessing.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but hating each other simply does not define the people of the South like it used to, and saying that it does is simply incorrect.

The fact that it's not as bad as it was before does not mean it's OK.

There is always room for improvement, I'm not saying that the South is perfect, simply that it's not as bad as you are making it out to be.

Just because your wife's parents were a bunch of raciest assholes does mean everyone, or even the majority, of people in the South are like that.

If they believe that "different kinds should live separately", then they are cut from precisely the same cloth.

Many people believe that, but not all. I try not to sterotype all people in general areas.

[Darth Wong]

It affects people by narrowing their choices, dumb-ass.

Well, assuming we are talking about self-segregation, then they themselves have choosen to limit their choices.

You treat them as a monolithic block. What of the people who choose to defy this trend? Are they treated as well? I remind you that a vote on this issue NARROWLY passed in Alabama just two years ago.

Did you try marrying a black girl?

Nope, but as I said before my cousin did, and did so with the familie's blessing.

Good for him, but the overall statistics on interracial marriage in the South are hardly encouraging.

There is always room for improvement, I'm not saying that the South is perfect, simply that it's not as bad as you are making it out to be.

Oh really?

In 1996, an initiative was proposed to voters in Kentucky to repeal a provision in the state's constitution that stipulated that black and white children could not be educated in the same classrooms. Of course, this provision was nullified by the 1954 U.S. Supreme Court in the Brown decision, but it was nevertheless important as a gauge of public attitudes. The amendment passed, but nearly 250,000 Kentuckians, about a third of the total Kentucky electorate, voted to keep the provision as part of the official state constitution.

Two years later, in 1998, South Carolina voters voted on removing an 1895 provision from the state constitution that banned marriages between blacks and whites. Again, this clause was moot because of a US Supreme Court ruling (although the "state's rights" jack-offs might dispute that), but it was still a good gauge of public opinion. Once again, the amendment passed, but 326,000 South Carolinians, 38 percent of the total South Carolina electorate, voted to retain the provision as part of the state constitution. In fact, a majority of voters in six counties in South Carolina voted to keep the ban on interracial marriage as part of the fundamental charter of the state.

In November 2000, Alabama voted on a referendum to repeal a ban on interracial marriage that had been in its constitution since 1901. More than 525,000 voters in Alabama — some 40 percent of the total electorate — voted to keep this provision as part of the fundamental law of the state. When one considers that blacks make up more than 20 percent of the voting age population in the state, and in all likelihood voted overwhelmingly to remove the ban, it is probable that a majority of the white voters in the state voted to keep the ban. In fact, the referendum to remove the ban was voted down by a majority of voters in 24 of Alabama's 67 counties.

Not as bad as it seems, eh? Still care to contradict facts with appeals to personal anecdote?

If they believe that "different kinds should live separately", then they are cut from precisely the same cloth.

Many people believe that, but not all. I try not to sterotype all people in general areas.

Not everyone, but in this case, you can safely stereotype MILLIONS of them, which is a serious problem whether you are willing to admit it or not.

[Drewcifer]

Since the current debate has quieted down for a bit, I'll add my dollar's worth of 2 cent stories...

Although I've lived in the midwest for over half my life, I lived in Nashville, TN for a few years.

I was amazed at 'how things were' there. I almost got in fist-fight one night at a party, because in a religous discussion, I voiced the idea that Jesus was probably very dark skinned with dark curly hair. It was only my skills of diplomacy that kept things cool. I didn't back down, but I didn't press the issue either.

I also saw Confederate flag stickers on many cars around, and a few flags as well. In the rural areas outside of town, the flag was flown everywhere. Many more people, more than any place I've ever visited (40 some odd states), were unapologetically racist.

Interestingly, self-styled segregation was everywhere. There were two grocery stores by my house*, and although there were no signs, and no one said anything, all the white people shopped at one store, and all the black people shopped at the other.

Due to our financial situation, my friends and I lived in the 'hood (East Nashville, between Main St/Gallatin Pike and Ellington Pkwy, if you know the area). We were the only white people for blocks. We were shunned and treated poorly by most of our neighbors (the old lady across the street ignored me every time I waved to her). Later though, we got in good with our neighborhood bad-ass, and most everyone treated us better, or at least tolerated us.

I was amazed, because Nashville is known as "The Athens of the South", home to several nationally recognized universities. Too, there's a lot of people from the coasts there (NYC and LA) due to the strong music business there.

In answer to the OP -- I was in a band there, and tended to run around in the fringe elements of Southern society. If you're a little more mainstream, and don't go around shouting "God is dead!", you should be ok. Just don't get into any religous discussions out in the woods with a bunch of drunk good ol' boys

* If you ever see the episode of Cops in Nashville, the one where the white guy gets busted with 6 crack pipes outside of a Kroger's -- that's the grocery store by my house.

[Peregrin Toker]

Since the current debate has quieted down for a bit, I'll add my dollar's worth of 2 cent stories...

Although I've lived in the midwest for over half my life, I lived in Nashville, TN for a few years.

I was amazed at 'how things were' there. I almost got in fist-fight one night at a party, because in a religous discussion, I voiced the idea that Jesus was probably very dark skinned with dark curly hair. It was only my skills of diplomacy that kept things cool. I didn't back down, but I didn't press the issue either.

I also saw Confederate flag stickers on many cars around, and a few flags as well. In the rural areas outside of town, the flag was flown everywhere. Many more people, more than any place I've ever visited (40 some odd states), were unapologetically racist.

Interestingly, self-styled segregation was everywhere. There were two grocery stores by my house*, and although there were no signs, and no one said anything, all the white people shopped at one store, and all the black people shopped at the other.

Due to our financial situation, my friends and I lived in the 'hood (East Nashville, between Main St/Gallatin Pike and Ellington Pkwy, if you know the area). We were the only white people for blocks. We were shunned and treated poorly by most of our neighbors (the old lady across the street ignored me every time I waved to her). Later though, we got in good with our neighborhood bad-ass, and most everyone treated us better, or at least tolerated us.

I was amazed, because Nashville is known as "The Athens of the South", home to several nationally recognized universities. Too, there's a lot of people from the coasts there (NYC and LA) due to the strong music business there.

In answer to the OP -- I was in a band there, and tended to run around in the fringe elements of Southern society. If you're a little more mainstream, and don't go around shouting "God is dead!", you should be ok. Just don't get into any religous discussions out in the woods with a bunch of drunk good ol' boys

It's probably no surprise to you that Tennessee is the state where the Ku Klux Klan was born.

[Drewcifer]

It's probably no surprise to you that Tennessee is the state where the Ku Klux Klan was born.

I don't remember if I knew that or not, but it sure doesn't surpise me, not one bit. It's the only place I've been that white people used 'the "n" word' in casual conversation in the same way we use descriptive words like tall or young. It was very strange to me (and a little frightening), not having been raised like that.

[LordShaithis]

Not as bad as it seems, eh? Still care to contradict facts with appeals to personal anecdote?

Southern apologists = pwned!!1!

[The Dark]

The few times I've actually come out and proclaimed myself to be an atheist/agnostic (not that I shy away from it, it's just that it never comes up because it's not important) most people haven't cared.

Good for you. However, most stories of religious intolerance do come from your part of the US, where even such a thing as a vibrator is criminalized.

As the Dark has said, most of the laws that get alot of plublicity are not enforced. Most of them are unknown to the public in general. The only law I know of that is enforced in Abliene is a law about having adult book stores and strip clubs inside the city limits. That was created a few years ago when an adult book and video store business moved in right next to a church.

Actually, I believe Florida technically still has a law on the books banning any sexual position other than missionary. I also believe I may be the only person in Florida who knows that law exists (dates back to the early 1800s). I don't think it's been enforced since the 1800s, but it's still there because nobody cares enough to repeal stupid laws.

If you want a real fight then try introducing yourself as a Methodist to a Southern Babtist family. If you actually lived here you'd find that Christians are more likely to be intolerant of other Christians who are of a different denomination, not of another religion, or no religion at all.

Yes, I know how that is. My town has two main churches: the 1500-member United Methodist and the 5000-member Southern Baptist. We generally get along just fine, except for when something like the Epsicopalian Bishop comes along. Then they get all riled up and we lay low for a few weeks. Or Gay Days, or sexual awareness classes, or prom...especially prom. I don't know why they dislike dancing so much.

As far as "The North is just as bad:" I wouldn't know, I haven't lived there since I was 2. Speaking from what my aunt Kim has said, Philadelphia is heavily segregated (she works at Temple University, in the inner city). From what I saw of Boston when visiting BU, it didn't appear quite as bad as Philly (though Chinatown looked rather rough, there were no apparent ghettos like Germantown was in Philly...don't know if it still is). I've never been out of the US (unfortunately), so I can't speak for anywhere I haven't been. Mystic is about as far north as I've been, and I couldn't say if it's segregated or not, because all the people I saw were white. I will say that religiously it does tend far more towards liberalism, which is why my first choice for grad school is BU, rather than Duke or Emory.

As far as "separate kinds should live separately": Where I am doesn't quite fit that mold. Near me live immigrants from Germany, immigrants from Norway, a Turkish family from New York (second-generation American), a Palestinian Muslim married to an Irish Methodist (Nayfeh), two Chinese families (Leung and Liu), a Vietnamese family (Nguyen), and an elderly African-American couple (I don't know Carl's last name, he keeps saying he doesn't want to be called Mister, it makes him feel old). Except for the Leungs, all of these are on my block, within 8 houses. Leungs are next block over, and I don't know that block as well (I'm not here for eight months of the year). I realize this is personal anecdote, but my own experiences are the only ones I can speak for when asked what it's like in the South. Some areas probably are still segregated; others are not.

[DPDarkPrimus]

"Yeah, and the Swastika's just a religious symbol"

It was "and the Swastika is just a Tebetan good luck symbol!"

You mean?

"Tibetan", you mean, and it is also a symbol used by several Native American tribes.