Trek is dead! Long live Trek!

Post by **Coyote** » 2002-09-24 01:09am

Okay, try this one on for size....

Q, in a fit of drunken pique, brings Grand Admiral Thrawn into the Star Trek universe. Nothing but Thrawn (and his uniform, of course). Q endows Thrawn with the ability to understand Federation Common and imparts upon him the technical knowledge Thrawn needs to be just as effective a commander in ST as he is in SW (so he understands Transporters, Replicators, etc and their limitations).

Thrawn is then given command of Starfleet and told to go forth and smash Romulans all and sundry.

How could a tactical and strategic genius like Thrawn take Starfleet crew and equipment and use them to their utmost to go head-to-head against someone like the Romulans? He would see clever uses for these Starfleet toys that the makers never dreamt of.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-09-24 02:39am

For starters, he would have to come up with tactics that would minimise the ambush tactics that cloaked vessels would/could employ. Threaten all supply nodes, develope new technologies to thwart/minimise the actual cloaking device. He would also utilise any cloaking devices he acquired.

I could see Thrawn doing things the Flatheads wouold be loath to do. Like destroying entire worlds.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2002-09-24 02:58am

The Darkling Said

Lets take a Q Torp which has been said to be a shaper 128 MT.
Full Volley = 10 so we have a ship outputing 1.2 GT in a Volley.
Lets take 12,000 Fed ships that gives the entire Fed fleet the power to output 14 Teratons in a volley, I have seen HTL calcs that put a single shot higher than that.

Where you getting 12000 ships armed with Q-Torps?, There we approx 12 fleets during the Dominion war (Can't remember where I picked that number up). Each of these numbered 100-150 ships in size. With a grand total of approx 1800 ships. Giving us at most, giving a grand total of 2.16 Teratons in a volley. As a note not all SF ships had Q-Torps.

As a note, I'm Trekkie type #3.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-24 03:25am

Failed Glory wrote:Agreed. How can a medieval society "catch up" technologically to our current technology before they were annulled?

Trekkie #: Possessing a non-sexual (?) crush on starship captain James Tiberius Kirk, whose character sheild prevents anything more than a torn shirt and a few bad jokes on Spock, these rabid little net monsters run around espousing the great ventures of Kirk and his crew. Much like a troll, but obsession with Kirk marks them a little too enthuased about ST to be just spewing crap. Much more like a religious zealot than a pure thoughtless troll

Since Kirk died in a movie where Malcom MacDowell was the villian I propose that Malcom MacDowell would make a good imperial officer. He's got the accent for it.

That way Kirk's character shields would be weakend.

Hmmmm, Patirck Stewart also has the qualifications to be an Imperial Officer (wouldn't that be a double kick in the nuts) and he might be the other half of the equation needed to defeat Kirk's character shields.

I hope that does it because I don't want to think about Jonathan Frakes being necessary.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-09-24 05:01am

Alyeska wrote:Regardless it will never come near ICS.

A number calculated by a man with a PhD in theoretical astrophysics, no interest in SW vs ST, a respected authority on SW (Technical Commentaries is simply fantastic) and who came up with that number because its consistent with what is known about SW in canon and official material.

Andrew Joshua Talon · Post by **Andrew Joshua Talon** » 2002-09-24 09:25am

As a matter of fact, we Trek fans DO understand the vastness of the SW Universe. They're like, a thousand times greater in territory than the Borg. But, the Feds if given the chance CAN defeat the Empire.

As G'kar might say: "Though it take a thousand years, we will be free." Yes, I like B5 too. I'm guessing you don't think they could stand up to the Empire either, huh?

Look, trying to find ways for the Feds to come out victorious, without trodding on already accepted beleifs and pissing off all the Warsies, isn't what Wong had in mind when he posted that article, right? I'm trying to do that.

I try to find ways for my favorite Universes to come out victorious simply because tyranny isn't something free people take kindly to. The Empire is malevolent: Argue that they're not.

Freedom is something that all sentient lifeforms struggle for at some point in their history because the need for it simply refuses to die. And finding ways to acheive that freedom is something that strongly appeals to me.

And that's all I have to say.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-24 11:05am

Gandalf wrote:The Darkling Said
Lets take a Q Torp which has been said to be a shaper 128 MT.
Full Volley = 10 so we have a ship outputing 1.2 GT in a Volley.
Lets take 12,000 Fed ships that gives the entire Fed fleet the power to output 14 Teratons in a volley, I have seen HTL calcs that put a single shot higher than that.

Where you getting 12000 ships armed with Q-Torps?, There we approx 12 fleets during the Dominion war (Can't remember where I picked that number up). Each of these numbered 100-150 ships in size. With a grand total of approx 1800 ships. Giving us at most, giving a grand total of 2.16 Teratons in a volley. As a note not all SF ships had Q-Torps.

As a note, I'm Trekkie type #3.

I was going with a maxium I know all ships dont carry Q torps, however you are under estimating the Federation fleet somewhat - the Klingons could deploy 1500 ships inside a day and Starfleet combined portions of two fleets to make 600 so you are off on you figures there.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-24 12:49pm

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Regardless it will never come near ICS.
A number calculated by a man with a PhD in theoretical astrophysics, no interest in SW vs ST, a respected authority on SW (Technical Commentaries is simply fantastic) and who came up with that number because its consistent with what is known about SW in canon and official material.

And you can fucking piss off.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-24 12:57pm

Alyeska wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Regardless it will never come near ICS.
A number calculated by a man with a PhD in theoretical astrophysics, no interest in SW vs ST, a respected authority on SW (Technical Commentaries is simply fantastic) and who came up with that number because its consistent with what is known about SW in canon and official material.
And you can fucking piss off.

If you can actually disprove the number from the ICS then fine. Whining about them isn't going to do a damn thing. Those are the numbers, like them or not.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-24 01:04pm

We have been using low end figures for so long now I forget how much we've been kicking ourselves in the balls to try and make the fight fair

Why I'm realeasing some Mid Range figures today

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-24 01:07pm

Frankly, there's no such thing as a fair fight.
ICS says SW troop transports beat ST top of the line warships, anybody who doesn't like it can damn well lump it.

U.S.S. Enterprise · Post by **U.S.S. Enterprise** » 2002-09-24 01:44pm

If the Federation decided to build ships the size a stardestroyer and arm them with dozens of phaser cannons they could easily whip any SW ship ( of comparable size.)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-09-24 01:59pm

1. Who's to say that the Empire as a whole wouldn't be happily accepted by a great deal of the AQ?

2. Man when faced with an impossible opponent(sorry when someone destroys a PLANET, you don't think of rebelling...I don't care how long your vengance streak last...this would be akin if America decides they have had enough of terrorism and wipes Iraq from the Golbe...not bombing it...there is nothing but a POTHOLE.). Usually concedes to the superior opponent.

3. Please size means nothing without the power behind it...thus Star Destroyer sized Fed craft just means bigger target for a Carrack Cruiser.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-09-24 02:06pm

U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:If the Federation decided to build ships the size a stardestroyer and arm them with dozens of phaser cannons they could easily whip any SW ship ( of comparable size.)

Quite the stretch there.... A single turbolaser is capable of directing a 200 gigaton bolt to a target. Each standard ISD has many of those, which can fire independently, and that does not account for its ion cannon or its contengent of TIE fighters, each armed with turbolasers.
What are the statistics or your phasers?

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-09-24 02:11pm

I nearly forgot ... that does not account for an ISD's heavy turbolasers. Those deliver a really nasty punch.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-24 02:19pm

U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:If the Federation decided to build ships the size a stardestroyer and arm them with dozens of phaser cannons they could easily whip any SW ship ( of comparable size.)

Bullshit.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-24 02:32pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Vympel wrote: A number calculated by a man with a PhD in theoretical astrophysics, no interest in SW vs ST, a respected authority on SW (Technical Commentaries is simply fantastic) and who came up with that number because its consistent with what is known about SW in canon and official material.
And you can fucking piss off.
If you can actually disprove the number from the ICS then fine. Whining about them isn't going to do a damn thing. Those are the numbers, like them or not.

Read my fucking posts. I stated that I disagree with them, but will not go against them. Look at my history here. Do I whine about them? Fuck no. This thread is about how people like me feel or act in the ST debates. I was stating my opinion, one that I don't bother to debate anymore. Just go and check and see how many threads I have been in denying the ICS firepower figures.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-24 03:40pm

U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:If the Federation decided to build ships the size a stardestroyer and arm them with dozens of phaser cannons they could easily whip any SW ship ( of comparable size.)

Calcs for type 12 phasers range from 245 KT (based on the 500 GJ quote for phase cannons and how phasers double at each level) to 252 MT (my own special numbers for the sole purpose of being generous to Trekkies like you who I want to crush).

252,000,000 tons for phasers vs 200,000,000,000 tons for a 20 year old MTL.

In closing, you are a moron.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-24 03:47pm

You should all bow in fear to the Romulan war birds of Doom capable of putting out 5 Petatons per second..

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-24 03:51pm

TheDarkling wrote:You should all bow in fear to the Romulan war birds of Doom capable of putting out 5 Petatons per second..

Don't make me pull out the Mulit Yottaton HTLs, boy.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-24 04:01pm

Multi Yottaton

arent they based on WEG? my insane uber figures are based of Canon

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-09-24 04:29pm

Multi Yottaton arent they based on WEG? my insane uber figures are based of Canon

and WEG has a habit of often underestiamating the power of the SW universe

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-24 05:27pm

Darkling, it is using the 200 GT and WEG scaling. Totally WEG numbers on the other hand...

Hey, you know what would be a fun calc?

Thermal detanators vaporize everything in the blast radius, no qualifiers added (logic hole I intend to exploit here

)
So take a 20 meter sphere (I don't remember is 20 is the diameter or radius) of solid neutronium and calc how much it would take to vape it.

Then scale that up to a Heavy Turbolaser. Remember to factor in the Starship to handheld conversion factors.

I wonder what the numbers would be.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-24 05:31pm

Yeah thats I good idea something similar was said about an explosive in DS9 except its radius was 800 KM - lets dance shall we?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-09-24 06:53pm

TheDarkling wrote:Yeah thats I good idea something similar was said about an explosive in DS9 except its radius was 800 KM - lets dance shall we?

*A deadly silence falls on the thread*

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Trek is dead! Long live Trek!

Oi vey...