Judge Roy Moore up to is usual bullshit... again...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-18 10:46pm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - August 14, 2003

For more information, please contact:

Larry Darby, Alabama State Director. (334) 270-8223.
Dave Silverman, Communications Director

ALABAMA CHIEF JUSTICE SHOULD RESIGN FOLLOWING REFUSAL TO OBEY FEDERAL ORDER

Atheist Civil Rights Group Charges
Moore Ignores Constitution

Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore this afternoon declared that he will not obey a federal court order to remove an unconstitutional monument of the Ten Commandments.

Moore told a press conference that "the real issue" was not about the Commandments, but whether people -- and governments -- have the right to "acknowledge God."

"Justice Moore should resign immediately," said Ellen Johnson, President of American Atheists. "He is doing everything he can to resist a federal court order to remove an unconstitutional, sectarian monument of the Ten Commandments from the entrance to the state's Judicial Building, and clearly is using his authority to promote religion."

Johnson noted that under Alabama law, Moore must now be suspended immediately from his post, and replaced by the senior court office, Justice Gorman Houston.

"Look at the message Justice Moore is sending to the public, especially our young people -- if you don't like a particular ruling, especially one that stops unconstitutional religious proselytizing, just defy the courts."

Dave Silverman, Communications Director for American Atheists, charged that Moore distorted legal and philosophical issues during his press conference.

"Moore repeats the old canard that there is no such thing as separation of church and state in our Constitution. He's wrong. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment was inserted not only to prevent government from interfering in the internal affairs of churches, but also to stop the state from promoting one or all religions."

American Atheists is a nationwide movement which defends the civil rights of nonbelievers, works for the separation of church and state, and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.

American Atheists, Inc. - P.O. Box 5733 - Parsippany, NJ (908)276-7300

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-08-18 10:57pm

Moore is defying the government! He is a terrorist threat! I demand he be relocated to Camp X-Ray at once!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-08-18 10:59pm

This isn't exactly news. He, and the AG of Alabama, have been fighting this for a while now. I doubt he'll give up, fundy moron.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-18 11:03pm

*waits for the usual Southern apologists to come in and complain that we're unfairly saying bad things about a southern state*

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-18 11:08pm

From What the Judge said in an interview with Bill O'reilly, The Judge he is refusing to accede to Federal demands becuase of the Preamble in the Alabama Constitution that has never been declared unconstitutional and still is legal under the 1901 Constitution.

We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama:

He also maybe objecting to this becuase of Article 1, Section 14 of the Alabama constitution:

That the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity.

Anyway this is going to the Supreme Court as a 10th and 11th amendment case:

Amendment X - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

Amendment XI - Judicial Limits. Ratified 2/7/1795. Note History

The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-18 11:17pm

well, he is in violation of the Bill of Rights. I dont think the 11th ammendment really applies to ths case, same withh the 10th.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-18 11:20pm

I wonder if Americans realize that they've basically turned their Constitution into a secular Bible. The way Americans quote passages of the Constitution to each other in arguments is so eerily similar to the behaviour of theologians that it simply isn't funny.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-18 11:20pm

The 10th does not apply, mainly because the 1st ammendment IS i the constitution. and due to SCOTUS decisions, applies to the entire government.

The 11th, is a constitutional challenge to a judges actions.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-18 11:22pm

The 9th and 10th are sleeping giants. I wouldn't mind seeing the 10th awoken, but the 9th would open up a massive Constitutional can of worms. There isn't much the government does that can't be challenged under the 9th.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-18 11:30pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:The 10th does not apply, mainly because the 1st ammendment IS i the constitution. and due to SCOTUS decisions, applies to the entire government.

It the 10th does apply here becuase The Alabama constitution does recognize that there is a god and it has never been declared unconstitutional. His other objection is that under Alabama law, the state can not not be defendent in a case. So, what the weasal in this case did was go across state lines and sued Alabama in Georgia. Under the 11th Amendment one can not do that.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-18 11:39pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:The 10th does not apply, mainly because the 1st ammendment IS i the constitution. and due to SCOTUS decisions, applies to the entire government.
It the 10th does apply here becuase The Alabama constitution does recognize that there is a god and it has never been declared unconstitutional. His other objection is that under Alabama law, the state can not not be defendent in a case. So, what the weasal in this case did was go across state lines and sued Alabama in Georgia. Under the 11th Amendment one can not do that.

The problem with the 10th is that it states

Amendment X - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

The first ammendment however IS mentioned in the constitution. So "states rights" do not apply.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-18 11:44pm

Actually, the letter of the first Amendment does precisely dick when it comes to limiting the ability of states to pass laws relating to religion or speech. It's unique in that it is the only amendment which can't be applied to the states via the 14th Amendment (that hasn't stopped the SCOTUS from doing so, however).

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-18 11:47pm

Durran Korr wrote:Actually, the letter of the first Amendment does precisely dick when it comes to limiting the ability of states to pass laws relating to religion or speech. It's unique in that it is the only amendment which can't be applied to the states via the 14th Amendment (that hasn't stopped the SCOTUS from doing so, however).

And SCOTUS is what matters.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-19 12:02am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
The first ammendment however IS mentioned in the constitution. So "states rights" do not apply.

The First amendment states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It does not state that the States can not recognize that there is a god or not.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-19 12:03am

**damn lack of edit function*
Nor does it disallow the states from putting up monuments of the 10 commandments.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:05am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
The first ammendment however IS mentioned in the constitution. So "states rights" do not apply.
The First amendment states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It does not state that the States can not recognize that there is a god or not.

Thanks to SCOTUS it does. The government may not take a position one way or the other i regards to religion. The 10 commandments do not pass the Lemon Test, and as such, are illegal.

By your logic, the states could put provisions into ther constitutions limiting free speech.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:06am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:**damn lack of edit function*
Nor does it disallow the states from putting up monuments of the 10 commandments.

Doing so is an establishment of religion, and as such, under the constitution, and SCOTUS decisions, is illegal.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-19 12:09am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
EmperorSolo51 wrote:**damn lack of edit function*
Nor does it disallow the states from putting up monuments of the 10 commandments.
Doing so is an establishment of religion, and as such, under the constitution, and SCOTUS decisions, is illegal.

Then why haven't the SC stricken down the Constitution of Alabama for that matter?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:11am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
EmperorSolo51 wrote:**damn lack of edit function*
Nor does it disallow the states from putting up monuments of the 10 commandments.
Doing so is an establishment of religion, and as such, under the constitution, and SCOTUS decisions, is illegal.
Then why haven't the SC stricken down the Constitution of Alabama for that matter?

Because it has not been challenged.

However, an appeal to it, if appealed to STOTUS would not hold up.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:11am

Edit: SCOTUS

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:13am

Much like the Texas constitution declares that atheists are ineligible to hold office.

If it was challenged, SCOTUS would take one look at it, and strike it down.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-19 12:18am

I see your point. However, instead of directly going to Alabama SC, the person who filed this suit in George did so hopes of avoiding article 1, section 14 of the Alabama constitution and in the process violated the 11th amendment by doing this.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-08-19 12:26am

Regardless, the man is still defying a direct court order. He should be fired and punished.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-19 12:43am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:I see your point. However, instead of directly going to Alabama SC, the person who filed this suit in George did so hopes of avoiding article 1, section 14 of the Alabama constitution and in the process violated the 11th amendment by doing this.

The one in Georgia was a federal court. A court of appeals if I am not mistaken. He did appeal the decision of he federal court in Alabama.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-08-19 04:40am

Darth Wong wrote:I wonder if Americans realize that they've basically turned their Constitution into a secular Bible. The way Americans quote passages of the Constitution to each other in arguments is so eerily similar to the behaviour of theologians that it simply isn't funny.

What would you have us use? When it comes to the law, the constitution is the bible. It wins out over everything else.