Homosexuality and Population Growth?

[Tom_Aurum]

I'm just wondering, does anyone have any data having to do with homosexuality and any links that it might have to do with population growth, or urban centers, or population density in general? Just wondering because one of my theories for a while has been that it is a form of built-in population control. Especially given the recent studies that certain genes are turned on or off when a person is exposed to certain stimuli, I'm wondering if homosexuality gets "turned on" (pardon the pun) when someone is thrown at a young age into a very population crowded situation. Or if there is any empirical data whatsoever to back up my theory. Thanks ahead of time.

[Frank Hipper]

I got no data, but plenty of opinions!

Taking the U.S. as an example, I don't see how overpopulation could have a role to play. We're overfed and comfortable, generally speaking. Little of the stresses that would be felt are experienced here.

If you're thinking along the lines of increased visibility of gays and lesbians, cultural change is as likely an explanation for the seeming increase in numbers.

And, while of course we have more people than ever before, that large population means a larger gay population, too.

Trying to find an explanation for homosexuality is going to be extremely difficult. Human sexuality is complex beyond imagining. One cause in one particular case may not be the cause in the next.

[Solauren]

The rate of homosexuality and bisexuality is probably constant on a per 1000 person basis through each generation.


It just becomes more public as time goes on

[Tom_Aurum]

I realize that finding solid data on this is very difficult given the media involved. First we are talking about a sociological study, which is always going to be a highly uncertain study at best. Second, we are talking about something that people are still going to be fibbing about. I'm not trying to explain why _people_ are homosexual, that's simple. They either are or they aren't. I was just wondering what the genetics of it were, and if the "trigger" for the gene was a logical one. If my logic holds true, however, and I'm not able to find data before then, all we have to do is watch china for a few more years. A dam will practically burst open full of gay men from that area.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Greece was very heavily overpopulated in the classical era; and even before, in the Dark Ages--that's when they were establishing their colonies over the Mediterranean, afterall, and it was a measure to relieve excess population. It might have been a factor in the widespread homosexual practices in Greek society of the time.

[Straha]

See I would state some stuff for you, if we were heading towards overpopulation, but since the last numbers I read had the world growth in the negatives, and U.S. barely staying stable I think I'll just let slide as is.

[Chardok]

LET'S HEAR IT FOR NEGATIVE POPULATION GROWTH!!! I personally think there are FAR too many humans on this planet as it is. I had myself fixed after procreating ONE TIME. My wife at the time already had a kid, mine makes 2 that's enough to replace Me and Her when we die. Doing my own little part to keep population growth at Zero...what she does now is her business (We are divorced) HOWEVER, in retrospect, my sociologically conditioned mind has decreed that I am a moron for doing this as The child I created was female. and I am the last male to carry my family name so the Klix family tree (though there are, i'm certain MANY branches) that is to say, My particular branch of the Klix family tree, dies with me. maybe i'll do something cool before I die so I am remembered.

[Sektor31]

LET'S HEAR IT FOR NEGATIVE POPULATION GROWTH!!! I personally think there are FAR too many humans on this planet as it is. I had myself fixed after procreating ONE TIME. My wife at the time already had a kid, mine makes 2 that's enough to replace Me and Her when we die. Doing my own little part to keep population growth at Zero...what she does now is her business (We are divorced) HOWEVER, in retrospect, my sociologically conditioned mind has decreed that I am a moron for doing this as The child I created was female. and I am the last male to carry my family name so the Klix family tree (though there are, i'm certain MANY branches) that is to say, My particular branch of the Klix family tree, dies with me. maybe i'll do something cool before I die so I am remembered.

You intentionally chose to be sterile?

[Chardok]

I did indeed.
Why?

[kojikun]

You intentionally chose to be sterile?

Why not? No kids, lots of sex, possibility of future kids if you do decide to have them thanks to frozen jizz.. Voluntary sterility doesnt make you incapable of having kids, just makes it impossible to do it via sex. Honestly its a better idea then not. We should sterilise all males at the age of 13 or 15 or something, after collected semen samples, that way they can fuck their brains out without having to worry about stupid pregnancies (like happened to a friend of mine whos 17 and has a fucking son)

[Chardok]

That's fucking REdiculous, Koj. (about your friend) There is no fucking reason someone should ruin their life like that THAT goddamn early.....fucking tragedy if you ask me.
AS for voluntary sterility, Just read my post, I think I explained it succinctly. If I used that word out of context, you'll forgive me, I hope, It's one AM....fucking insomnia.

[kojikun]

yeah. Alan's such a cute guy too. Now hes stuck with a son. I think he's depressed alot. Damn that boy is great tho, I really like him.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Negative population growth is a serious danger for any species, and we should not be pleased with it. However, I think it is only temporary and the result of social conditions. Genetic and technological innovation will eventually compensate and bring about population stability--but we could see an actual worldwide population decline first, which would be highly distressing in societal and in particular economic implications. All of this is going to happen over a period of centuries, of course.

[InnerBrat]

Hmmm..

Any overpopulation problem we have has got nothing to do with high birth rates and everything to do with low death rates (the demographic transition). By cutting down on the number of children, you simply produce an older generation with no children to support them (see the problems in China).

The most relaistic way of curbing population growht is death at retirement.
Any volunteers?

[BoredShirtless]

You intentionally chose to be sterile?

Why not? No kids, lots of sex, possibility of future kids if you do decide to have them thanks to frozen jizz.. Voluntary sterility doesnt make you incapable of having kids, just makes it impossible to do it via sex. Honestly its a better idea then not. We should sterilise all males at the age of 13 or 15 or something, after collected semen samples, that way they can fuck their brains out without having to worry about stupid pregnancies (like happened to a friend of mine whos 17 and has a fucking son)

Being sterile will not stop STD's.

[Straha]

Hmmm..

Any overpopulation problem we have has got nothing to do with high birth rates and everything to do with low death rates (the demographic transition). By cutting down on the number of children, you simply produce an older generation with no children to support them (see the problems in China).

The most relaistic way of curbing population growht is death at retirement.
Any volunteers?

Actually the most realistic way is too just let things be, as china would transition from an agricultural to an industrial cultue the birth rate drops, and you get something like what is happening in Europe right now.

[Straha]

LET'S HEAR IT FOR NEGATIVE POPULATION GROWTH!!! I personally think there are FAR too many humans on this planet as it is. I had myself fixed after procreating ONE TIME.

Though I recognize your right to not reproduce I must ask you why you would think that there is overpopulation on the Earth? All projejctions have the population going down in the next fifty years, not up, and even if there was a problem you'd want to have as many kids as possible because you'd be more likley to sire the one who solves the population problem.

Also theer is the question if it is even possible to overpopulate the Earth or not.

[Lagmonster]

This is where we get into the shit: What is a healthy population level? Who has the right to breed, to live, to have their life sustained artificially?

Innerbrat mentioned (semi-seriously, I expect) that it's 'better' to cull the aged rather than discourage breeding. Funny thing is, I would lean towards the latter - simply put, I figure it's a hell of a lot better to trample on people's freedoms and rights but let them live otherwise full, comfortable, and healthy lives, than to tell them when it's time to die.

Debate this: Let's say a totalitarian, yet somewhat caring government had to deal with unsafe population levels. They implement a program: When you become an adult (21 years old), you sign up for one of two lists. You can choose either to be rendered sterile and live a long life in total medical and other support, or have the right to have as many kids as you want (assuming you can find a partner - they aren't handed out, here!) and be executed at the age of 60. Which list do YOU sign up for? I can't think of ANY person who would choose to breed, given those circumstances.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

This is where we get into the shit: What is a healthy population level? Who has the right to breed, to live, to have their life sustained artificially?

Innerbrat mentioned (semi-seriously, I expect) that it's 'better' to cull the aged rather than discourage breeding. Funny thing is, I would lean towards the latter - simply put, I figure it's a hell of a lot better to trample on people's freedoms and rights but let them live otherwise full, comfortable, and healthy lives, than to tell them when it's time to die.

Debate this: Let's say a totalitarian, yet somewhat caring government had to deal with unsafe population levels. They implement a program: When you become an adult (21 years old), you sign up for one of two lists. You can choose either to be rendered sterile and live a long life in total medical and other support, or have the right to have as many kids as you want (assuming you can find a partner - they aren't handed out, here!) and be executed at the age of 60. Which list do YOU sign up for? I can't think of ANY person who would choose to breed, given those circumstances.

Such a system would collapse instantly, the whoever tried to enforce it would be lined up against a wall.

[Chardok]

You would be correct sir, Give me long life. My reasons for feeling negative population growth are blunt and simple. Human's are mean. they're ugly, dirty, stupid, jumpy, destructive, and slow (Yes, me too.). I think you would probably call me a leary-ist. (Asshole) Be honest with yourself, (and I know everyone on this forum is quite smart, i've seen your postings) How many people have you known, or even just seen on the street (Or tv, or whatever) where you just thought to yourself, My god, I hope they don't have kids. Maybe it's just the people i've been surrounded by personally, but I've thought that alot. Scotty from ST for instance, just had a kid here a couple years ago at AGE 80. that's rediculous. and the lady who won mother of the year for the whole country? (I'm not citing specific sources, so don't ask) has something on the order of 15 kids, that's just crazy. this is precisely the behavior we are passing along to our children, too. they will be inclined to have lots of kids, blah blah blah, teen pregnancy is up up up, creating a whole new genmeration of stretch marks for us to deal with...
Now, I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, and I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, either, I just think that maintining a sustainable society is the way to go.
Besides, we're diluting the gene pool enough as it is.

[BoredShirtless]

Besides, we're diluting the gene pool enough as it is.

Diluting the gene pool? What do you mean?

[Lagmonster]

Such a system would collapse instantly, the whoever tried to enforce it would be lined up against a wall.

...screwing the politics of it, of course, the point is to show that between the above-mentioned idea of culling breeding rights and killing off retirees, there is basically no standing debate. People will grumble, but will find other things to do in life than have kids, but tell people they're being shot at 60, and you've got a riot on your hands.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Such a system would collapse instantly, the whoever tried to enforce it would be lined up against a wall.

...screwing the politics of it, of course, the point is to show that between the above-mentioned idea of culling breeding rights and killing off retirees, there is basically no standing debate. People will grumble, but will find other things to do in life than have kids, but tell people they're being shot at 60, and you've got a riot on your hands.

I know! I can't believe people would actually riot over something as little as the government going around shooting people.

[Chardok]

Besides, we're diluting the gene pool enough as it is.

Diluting the gene pool? What do you mean?

Well, people who have no reason to be alive are being kept alive by drugs, blahblahblah, you've heard it all before, not only are they being kept alive, but they are procreating and passing on unfavorable traits (Hereditary predisposition for cancer, Eg.) that may not manifest itself for two or three generations, which when combined with another who has unfavorable traits, you get the picture. More And more of these unfavorable traits are being introduced and allowed to remain in the gene pool, which MAY be (speculation here) why you see the cancer and other genetic disorder numbers going up up up. But that's certainly just a thought.

Now, my paranoia is kicking in and it is telling me that your were perhaps thinking that i was some kind of Aryan Troll clone thinking that anything other than the race I am (Be that white, asian, black, etc.) would constitute genetic impurity. If this is not the case, I certainly do apologize, but that's the paranoid vibe i'm getting....

[Stravo]

To be honest you can't look to the disproportinate number of gays in big cities as a sign that over population causes homosexuality. Many gays travel TO big cites to get away from homophobia in their small towns and communities. I am actually interested in the phenomemnon that large urban areas tend to be more liberal than conservateive. There are of course cities like NYC and Boston utter bastions of liberalism, but I think that most big cities are simply more liberal and open minded than your average small town or suburb. It's an interesting phenomenon that has been around since the dawn of large urban centers.

Most of the homosexuals I know in NYC come from outside NYC, like Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, the midwest. But I would hazard a guess that the numbers remain fairly constant, and the reason they become more prominent goes hand in hand with a society's attitude towards homosexuality. The more accepting that a society is the more you will see them.