Judge Roy Moore up to is usual bullshit... again...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-19 09:41am

Alex Moon wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I wonder if Americans realize that they've basically turned their Constitution into a secular Bible. The way Americans quote passages of the Constitution to each other in arguments is so eerily similar to the behaviour of theologians that it simply isn't funny.
What would you have us use? When it comes to the law, the constitution is the bible. It wins out over everything else.

Too bad you seem to confuse "legal" with "ethical" then, because it gets trotted out in ethical debates just as readily as it does in legal ones.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-19 10:19am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:The 10th does not apply, mainly because the 1st ammendment IS i the constitution. and due to SCOTUS decisions, applies to the entire government.
It the 10th does apply here becuase The Alabama constitution does recognize that there is a god and it has never been declared unconstitutional.

Believing that there is a god is not equivalent to believing in Christianity.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-08-19 11:10am

Betsy thinks that the solution to this problem is this: Give him his way, and then take it to the logical conclusion by cluttering up the courthouse with so many monuments from so many religions that it becomes impossible to do any work, and protest using the same arguments when he tries to get them removed.

Then we wait and see how long it takes to get EVERYTHING taken out.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-08-19 12:48pm

Iceberg wrote:Betsy thinks that the solution to this problem is this: Give him his way, and then take it to the logical conclusion by cluttering up the courthouse with so many monuments from so many religions that it becomes impossible to do any work, and protest using the same arguments when he tries to get them removed.

Then we wait and see how long it takes to get EVERYTHING taken out.

Actually I could go for that. Better that everyone gets a chance than nobody gets a chance.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-08-20 06:59pm

Deadline is midnight tonight. A group of Moore supporters had linked hands around the monument. Police dragged them out of the courthouse and arrested them. It appears the monument will be gone, either by Moore or by force.

Note: I support the removal of the monument, I merely feel the police are being a bit quick to being arresting people. If they were obstructing removal efforts I would support their arrest.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-08-20 07:52pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I wonder if Americans realize that they've basically turned their Constitution into a secular Bible. The way Americans quote passages of the Constitution to each other in arguments is so eerily similar to the behaviour of theologians that it simply isn't funny.
What would you have us use? When it comes to the law, the constitution is the bible. It wins out over everything else.
Too bad you seem to confuse "legal" with "ethical" then, because it gets trotted out in ethical debates just as readily as it does in legal ones.

Well, when it comes to basic rights, which IMHO are an ethical issue...

But Alex is right. The legality of the Constitution is unquestionable so far as law goes. The only issue is in interpreting it...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-08-21 12:34am

Just today CNN posted that the Supreme Court upheld the previous ruling to remove the monument. It's coming down. I hope they use dynamite.

jezrianna · Post by **jezrianna** » 2003-08-21 12:42am

I wonder why you so called atheists even give a damn. How are the Ten Commandments diiferent from the Code of Hammurabi? Or would you object to those too? After all, aren't they both ancient legal codes? And as long as the judge in Alabama rules according to current law, what the hell difference does it make what ancient legal codes he has on display nearby?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-08-21 01:01am

jezrianna wrote:I wonder why you so called atheists even give a damn. How are the Ten Commandments diiferent from the Code of Hammurabi? Or would you object to those too? After all, aren't they both ancient legal codes? And as long as the judge in Alabama rules according to current law, what the hell difference does it make what ancient legal codes he has on display nearby?

Because, as you've obviously missed (or deliberately ignored), Judge Moore did not place the 10 Commandments in the courthouse because they're an ancient legal code, he placed them in there specifically to promote Judeo-Christianity on government property, and lend the weight and majesty of secular law to his personal religious beliefs. I'll leave you to figure out why that's bad.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-08-21 03:28pm

jezrianna wrote:I wonder why you so called atheists even give a damn. How are the Ten Commandments diiferent from the Code of Hammurabi?

The first four commandments specifically require persecution of religions that didn't start with Judaism. Those commandments are in direct conflict with the establishment clause of the US Constitution. Displaying the Ten Commandments in a US court is therefore unconstitutional. Only delusional or ignorant people think that US law is based on the Ten Commandments.

jezrianna wrote:Or would you object to those too?

Why should anyone object to the Code of Hammurabi? It's completely secular, as far as I know.

jezrianna wrote:After all, aren't they both ancient legal codes?

No, the Ten Commandments are religious instructions, some of which happen to also be common-sense ethical instructions.

jezrianna wrote:And as long as the judge in Alabama rules according to current law, what the hell difference does it make what ancient legal codes he has on display nearby?

He's disobeying a major law of the land by keeping them on display; how can he be trusted to rule fairly in other cases if he refuses to abide by legal decisions that he doesn't like?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-21 05:49pm

jezrianna wrote:I wonder why you so called atheists even give a damn.

Hey look! An idiot!

How are the Ten Commandments diiferent from the Code of Hammurabi? Or would you object to those too?

Yes, since neither of them are part of the laws of the country.

After all, aren't they both ancient legal codes?

... which do not apply to the courtroom in which they would be posted, dumb-ass.

And as long as the judge in Alabama rules according to current law, what the hell difference does it make what ancient legal codes he has on display nearby?

They are an attempt to establish religion by symbolically conjoining it with the authority of the government, you blithering idiot. You obviously have something to say about us "so called atheists". Why don't you grow a backbone and just say it instead of taking weak-ass jabs like this?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-21 05:54pm

If you want ancient laws that relate to modern justice, go Roman. They had things like trials. The Ten Commandments.. Do not.

This is incredibly clearly cut, legally. There is no way one can twist the wording of the Freedom Of Religion amendment, and the clear precedent, leading all the way back to the Founders own words, to claim it's supported. Whatever you personally like to think about religion and the Commandments and the USA is your own damn business, be stupid if you want.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-08-21 08:37pm

I want the South to rise again and, in the name of Almighty God, fight to destroy secularism and restore God to government.

That'll give us the perfect excuse to go Sherman on all of their asses.

We won't just hit Georgia and the Carolinas this time, bitch! You're all gonna burn! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

:twisted:

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-08-21 08:57pm

God obiviously hates america. Look at Texas, Missippi, Goergia, Alabama, etc...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-22 01:00am

The majority of cnn.com's readers believe it's perfectly appropriate to put a Ten Commandments monument in a state courthouse

See the poll attached to the article at http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/21/ten.commandments and while you're at it, read the article itself and notice that they don't interview anyone who is not religious. They portray it as a battle of beliefs against law, rather than beliefs against ethical principle.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-08-22 01:20am

Why fine the state? The money should be automatically deducted from Moore's wallet. Let's see how long he'll stand and fight then.

"God is on our side!"
"Your credit card has been rejected."

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-08-22 01:23am

Darth Wong wrote:The majority of cnn.com's readers believe it's perfectly appropriate to put a Ten Commandments monument in a state courthouse

See the poll attached to the article at http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/21/ten.commandments and while you're at it, read the article itself and notice that they don't interview anyone who is not religious. They portray it as a battle of beliefs against law, rather than beliefs against ethical principle.

That poll may have been Freeped.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-22 01:23am

If a normal person is found guilty of contempt of court, he can be put in prison. Why is Moore given such a kid-gloves treatment?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-08-22 02:01am

Darth Wong wrote:If a normal person is found guilty of contempt of court, he can be put in prison. Why is Moore given such a kid-gloves treatment?

He's not technically in contempt yet, I don't believe. The deadline is Wednesday, after which the State of Alabama will begin accumulating contempt fines. Moore might be immune from going to jail as well if he's acting as an officer of the Supreme Court of Alabama or the State of Alabama, which is why the fines are going to the state instead of him personally.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-08-22 02:28am

Alex Moon wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I wonder if Americans realize that they've basically turned their Constitution into a secular Bible. The way Americans quote passages of the Constitution to each other in arguments is so eerily similar to the behaviour of theologians that it simply isn't funny.
What would you have us use? When it comes to the law, the constitution is the bible. It wins out over everything else.

Except that, unlike the bible, the constitution can be changed.

I want the South to rise again and, in the name of Almighty God, fight to destroy secularism and restore God to government.

That'll give us the perfect excuse to go Sherman on all of their asses. We won't just hit Georgia and the Carolinas this time, bitch! You're all gonna burn! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Aren't you *from* the South, though?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-08-22 05:33pm

About damn time. You can believe whatever the fuck you want, as long as it doesn't affect you work environment.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-08-22 06:43pm

We should erect monuments to OUR religions right next to that Judge's 10 Commandments, since hes so keen on prevent the oppression of free religious expression. I move to erect a large erection in honour of my religous belief that teh cock = yummy. Whos with me?

For you breeders, we'll erect a large pussy and tits.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-08-22 07:03pm

Well, now this just now has become moot on my side. Judge Roy Moore has been suspended. I now officially yield in this debate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95416,00.html

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-08-22 07:15pm

Haha! Suck on that Moore!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-22 09:34pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:Well, now this just now has become moot on my side. Judge Roy Moore has been suspended. I now officially yield in this debate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95416,00.html

Why should your asinine opinion be changed by the fact that Moore has been suspended? You still seem to think it's OK for some bigoted asshole to turn the state courthouse into a forum for promoting one religion over others, don't you?

The only way to put a monument of the Ten Commandments into the courthouse without violating the establishment clause is to put similar monuments of equal size and prominence for every other known religion in existence. This would eliminate the potential for this monument to promote one religion over others. It would also consume every square foot of space in the courtroom and on its grounds, and perhaps spilling out onto neighbouring properties as well. Perhaps they could declare eminent domain.