Imperial Anti-alien Bias?

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-08-17 02:23am

Darth Wong wrote:Painrack, there are racists in the US Army too, but that doesn't mean the US Army itself is racist.

That was exactly my point, Mike.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-17 02:34am

Lord_Xerxes wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Painrack, there are racists in the US Army too, but that doesn't mean the US Army itself is racist.
That was exactly my point, Mike.

Yes, and it gets even better. You see, that officer called Chewbacca a "thing", but Leia called him a "big walking carpet".

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-17 02:41am

The officer might not have known what a Wookiee was, so what else was he supposed to call Chewbacca?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-17 02:44am

Darth Wong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:
In canon...there is virtually no evidence to say either way.
I disagree. The fact that no women, minorities, or aliens can be seen in the Imperial military is surely not a coincidence.
Incorrect. The entire clone army is dark-skinned as of AOTC. As for women, we only see perhaps a few dozen Imperial officers in total during the original trilogy; not enough to form a hasty generalization about an officer corps which is surely vast beyond comprehension.

As for aliens, there is a perfectly good reasons to preferentially recruit and train one species: equipment standardization. Think about what a pain in the ass it would be to equip and supply a military which just increased the variety of equipment specifications by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE in order to accomodate multiple species. Similar concerns apply to medic training.

Point, and something I'm rather embarassed that I glossed over. But the Imperial military bureaucracy is still exclusively white.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-08-17 02:48am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:(heck, it's common knowledge that Daala only became Admiral because she was dating Grand Moff Tarkin!!)

They call that dating over there?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-17 02:54am

Yeah, that kind of hit me as being funny, too.

Simon, for future reference, what Daala and Tarken were doing was sleeping together.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-17 02:57am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:(heck, it's common knowledge that Daala only became Admiral because she was dating Grand Moff Tarkin!!)
They call that dating over there?

[Tarkin] It's not my fault she was such a nymphomaniac! [/Tarkin]

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-08-17 03:01am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The officer might not have known what a Wookiee was, so what else was he supposed to call Chewbacca?

He knew what a Wookie was. The novel indicates that he hates Wookies. Can't give a direct quote but the script implies that he did not want a Wookie in his detention area unless he had to.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-08-17 04:08am

Isolder74 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The officer might not have known what a Wookiee was, so what else was he supposed to call Chewbacca?
He knew what a Wookie was. The novel indicates that he hates Wookies. Can't give a direct quote but the script implies that he did not want a Wookie in his detention area unless he had to.

Would you like a being from a species known to rip people's arms off when they get angry to be put under your responsibilities?

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2003-08-17 03:17pm

Durran Korr wrote: But the Imperial military bureaucracy is still exclusively white.

But then, there are very, very few 'minority' Rebels onscreen in the OT. Maybe the Rebel Alliance was institutionally racist as well. And sexist, because I can't remember seeing many women there (except for Leia, obv.)

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-08-17 03:35pm

[quote="Durran Korr

Point, and something I'm rather embarassed that I glossed over. But the Imperial military bureaucracy is still exclusively white.[/quote]

And what have we really seen of the empires military bureaucracy in the movies?

We have seen the troops aboard the DeathStar (a special project).
We have seen the men of Darth Vader´s Death-Squadron (elite-taskforce)
and
"a entire legion of my best troops on Endor".

As for the rebellion, with exception of Leia, there are only white males in ANH, a female communications-officer in TESB and besides Lando only one black fighter-pilot in ROTJ. Not to forget, that the aliens of the rebel-alliance only appeared in ROTJ, too.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-08-17 04:20pm

There have been artificial environments in SW for many millenia. In that time, humans would adapt to their environment. Part of that adaptation, involves skin colour becoming lighter, as there is no reason for the exess melanin (sp?) in these human's epidermi.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-08-17 04:39pm

YT300000 wrote:There have been artificial environments in SW for many millenia. In that time, humans would adapt to their environment. Part of that adaptation, involves skin colour becoming lighter, as there is no reason for the exess melanin (sp?) in these human's epidermi.

Doubtfull, natural selection doesn't really work in a society advanced enought to build such artificial enviroments and learned abilities are not inherited (not that you could learn to make your skin lighter).

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-08-17 11:50pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The officer might not have known what a Wookiee was, so what else was he supposed to call Chewbacca?
He knew what a Wookie was. The novel indicates that he hates Wookies. Can't give a direct quote but the script implies that he did not want a Wookie in his detention area unless he had to.

Don't know about all that, but so far as that officer is concerned, in the movie he says, "Where are you taking that...thing?" with the "thing" sounding like disgust to me.

And as to lack of "minorities" in SW military groups...it's a galactic civilization! They probably don't even notice it like people in our planet do!

And I think there might be something to be said for the evolution theory or whathaveyou...I don't remember very many dark-skinned humans in the movies as a whole. There are some, but it seems to be predominately white from what I remember in the movies. And this includes general civilian populace in TPM and AotC.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-17 11:52pm

Actually IIRC, back in the ASVS days, I think it might have been suggested that there might just be fewer ethnic minorities in the Galaxy than in Real Life...

Makes sense to me, at least.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-18 08:36am

Sir Sirius wrote:
YT300000 wrote:There have been artificial environments in SW for many millenia. In that time, humans would adapt to their environment. Part of that adaptation, involves skin colour becoming lighter, as there is no reason for the exess melanin (sp?) in these human's epidermi.
Doubtfull, natural selection doesn't really work in a society advanced enought to build such artificial enviroments and learned abilities are not inherited (not that you could learn to make your skin lighter).

Couldn't there be societies in the SW galaxy who make use of eugenics??

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-08-18 10:12am

Darth Wong wrote:Painrack, there are racists in the US Army too, but that doesn't mean the US Army itself is racist.

The question is what kind of evidence there is in the canon source to suggest anti alien bias. That's it. Is it proof that the Empire is inherently anti alien? Of course not, but since the topic was about what evidence there was to support anti-alien bias and not "Is the Empire racist"................

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-08-19 12:12pm

PainRack wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Painrack, there are racists in the US Army too, but that doesn't mean the US Army itself is racist.
The question is what kind of evidence there is in the canon source to suggest anti alien bias. That's it. Is it proof that the Empire is inherently anti alien? Of course not, but since the topic was about what evidence there was to support anti-alien bias and not "Is the Empire racist"................

The problem herein lies with the fact that it's an isolated incident with such a minor character, and it doesn't represent the Empire as a whole. If for instance it had been someone of more importance, perhaps Tarkin or the Emperor himself, you might be able to make that point more valid. But even then, they aren't representative of the whole. It's just that they're of such power and status of the Empire that their views could be forced upon the rest.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-08-19 05:36pm

weren't wookies slaves for the empire?

Could explain the response of the guy at the detention center

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-08-20 12:57am

Zac Naloen wrote:weren't wookies slaves for the empire?

That's not exactly canon information.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-08-20 01:53am

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:weren't wookies slaves for the empire?
That's not exactly canon information.

Well didn't you notice that no one on the Death Star thought it odd to see a Wookie being lead by two stormtroopers. This means there was Wookies on the Death Star for some reason. Which is not explained.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-08-20 05:11am

Isolder74 wrote:Well didn't you notice that no one on the Death Star thought it odd to see a Wookie being lead by two stormtroopers. This means there was Wookies on the Death Star for some reason. Which is not explained.

Or the Death Star was simply being used as a prison for anybody who stumbles across it rather than taking them off-site for security reasons.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2003-08-22 04:08pm

Other things to consider:

1. It stands to reason Leia's detention center was not the only onboard. Had it been the only one, Han's "prisoner transfer" ruse would have spectacularly backfired, as they would have instantly known something was wrong (if you have only 1 detention center, you can't transfer someone in from another detention center).

2. Security concerns would have probably dictated that not only anyone stumbling across the DS1, but anyone who stumbles across the supply ships on their way to the DS1, would need to be held on the DS1, at least until it was completed. Without knowing how many prisoners were held on board, we can't really say how strange Stormtroopers escorting a Wookie would look.

3. Crew size considerations. With a battle station of that size, we're talking about what, hundreds of thousands if not millions of crew, technicians, troops, pilots and other personnel? Most of those personnel would not have anything to do with security/prison functions, so you wouldn't expect them to know how many prisoners are on board, let alone the composition of the prisoner population. So, might there not have been as much reactions to seeing Chewie because they already knew they didn't know just what kind of prisoners they had on board, and not necessarily because there was a large contingent of Wookies on board?

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