Ancient Atomic War?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

How about the "he was just making it up" theory? Or will some idiot like you someday read the Star Wars novelization and decide that we had planet-smashing battlestations in the 20th century?

The idea of the Mahabharata as fiction is interesting, but usually discounted on the theory that such works in the era were meant for some religious/socio-historical purpose.

...And I can't totally discount the possibility that Star Wars would be considered real in the future, unfortunately.

[Gandalf]

How about the "he was just making it up" theory? Or will some idiot like you someday read the Star Wars novelization and decide that we had planet-smashing battlestations in the 20th century?

The idea of the Mahabharata as fiction is interesting, but usually discounted on the theory that such works in the era were meant for some religious/socio-historical purpose.

...And I can't totally discount the possibility that Star Wars would be considered real in the future, unfortunately.

Though it would be kinda cool.

[kojikun]

Does the Mahabharata start with "A long time ago, in a previous incarnation far far away"?

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, I think we can safely discount the possibility of an ancient modern civilization by the lack of trash that such a civilization would invariably produce. Where are all the ancient 7/11 Mega-Gulp cups and still-fresh twinkies?

[Crayz9000]

Where are all the ancient 7/11 Mega-Gulp cups and still-fresh twinkies?

Even Twinkies have a lifespan. Although I don't think anyone has calculated the half-life of a Twinkie yet.

[kojikun]

Even Twinkies have a lifespan. Although I don't think anyone has calculated the half-life of a Twinkie yet.

3.8E24+/-1E10 years.

[Drewcifer]

I find the texts mentioned quite fascinating, but agree that is it quite a leap in logic to think that the ancient Indians had atomic powered planes and such.

But it is a common human trait to assume that the current times are the result of a direct, linear progression, that today is the pinnacle of advancement over the uncivilized cretins of the past.

Don't forget, the Greeks are thought to have had navigational computers and the Egyptians are thought to have had batteries and the great pyramids were built in alignment with true north, not magentic north.

While the current level of civilization and technology are surely the highest and most complex the world has ever seen, it wasn't a ride straight to the top

[Gil Hamilton]

The greek Antikythera Mechanism wasn't a result of particularly high technology, it was just a really clever use of gears and was by and large a clock. I suppose you could call it a computer, but it wasn't the most technologically advanced thing in the world. It's inventors certainly get a gold star for cleverness and investing all that time making gears of really specific sizes to simulate the planets and the stars, though. It's just calling it a computer is misleading... after all, I could call my wristwatch an analog computer by the same logic.

As for the Egyptian batteries, well, if the Egyptians did have them, they had to be very rare, as iron needed for their cores was extremely rare in Egyptian, not to mention that iron was considered useless in that period of history that people who theorize about ancient Egyptian electricity talk about. The Baghdad battery that they theorized existed (which likely was created much much later) was useless for power generation anyway, we know from reconstructions of the thing that it would have taken like 40 batteries to generate one watt. It would have been an oddity in the ancient world, not a power source.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The only ancient use of electricity I have heard of is in ancient Babylon, where vinegar batteries were used to electroplate pottery.

[CJvR]

Wouldn't an ancient nuke scatter radioactive isotops into the atmosphere line our nukes do? That would have left traces even after five milleneums.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Wouldn't an ancient nuke scatter radioactive isotops into the atmosphere line our nukes do? That would have left traces even after five milleneums.

Check the Greenland Ice Cap.

[Drewcifer]

The greek Antikythera Mechanism wasn't a result of particularly high technology, it was just a really clever use of gears and was by and large a clock. I suppose you could call it a computer....I could call my wristwatch an analog computer by the same logic.

I'd say it was pretty advanced for 65 BC And although it would have more in common with a modern day analog watch than a Pentium, it is a computer in the strict sense of what a computer is: a device that makes (relatively) high-speed mathmatical calculations. (Think Babbage)

As for the Egyptian batteries...

I believe I was mistaken. Although I'd swear I've read about Egyptian batteries, I can't find anything online except the Bahgdad Battery.

...It would have been an oddity in the ancient world, not a power source.

Oh, I've never heard of them being used for power generation per se. As CC noted, and as I've read, they were used for electroplating ceremonial armour, jewelry, etc. And I'd guess that precious metal blacksmiths were somewhat of an oddity themselves in those days

Regarding the construction, and electricity available:

...The nondescript earthen jar is only 5½ inches high by 3 inches across. The opening was sealed with an asphalt plug, which held in place a copper sheet, rolled into a tube. This tube was capped at the bottom with a copper disc held in place by more asphalt. A narrow iron rod was stuck through the upper asphalt plug and hung down into the center of the copper tube — not touching any part of it. Fill the jar with an acidic liquid, such as vinegar or fermented grape juice, and you have yourself a battery capable of generating a small current. The acidic liquid permits a flow of electrons from the copper tube to the iron rod — an electric flow — when the two metal terminals are connected.

...Experiments with models of the Baghdad Battery have generated between 1.5 and 2 volts. Not a lot of power....Other theories hold that several batteries could have been linked together to generate a higher voltage for the use in electroplating gold to a silver surface. More experiments with several Baghdad-type batteries have shown this to be possible...

Interesting, yes? Regardless, I still think that many ancient civilizations were much more advanced than we give them credit for today.

[Darth Wong]

Interesting, yes? Regardless, I still think that many ancient civilizations were much more advanced than we give them credit for today.

Perhaps you just don't know how much credit we give them. After all, when we describe the bronze age, the iron age, etc., it is implicit that they already possess enough technology for metalworking.

[Sea Skimmer]

Wouldn't an ancient nuke scatter radioactive isotops into the atmosphere line our nukes do? That would have left traces even after five milleneums.

The levels probably would be detectable, though after two thousand odd nuclear tests I don't think we could pick it out of the clutter. However the resulting radioactive waste from the bomb manufacturing process would still be around. And nuclear weapons require massive amounts of infrastructure, where are the remnants of the needed hundreds of megawatts worth of electrical generation capacity?

Anyway the whole things a waste of time to discuss when there's not a single shred of proof to suggest anything remotely advanced.

[Drewcifer]

Perhaps you just don't know how much credit we give them.

The more I learn, the less I know But in all seriousness, you're probably right. I'm mostly self-taught and both sdnet/asvs have taught me that I don't know as much as I thought I did. heh, I'm sure many of my posts drive you guys crazy

After all, when we describe the bronze age, the iron age, etc., it is implicit that they already possess enough technology for metalworking.

A prejudice on my part, I suppose. I'm a sucker for the romantic notion of the civilized barbarian.

[Gil Hamilton]

I'd say it was pretty advanced for 65 BC And although it would have more in common with a modern day analog watch than a Pentium, it is a computer in the strict sense of what a computer is: a device that makes (relatively) high-speed mathmatical calculations. (Think Babbage)

But it didn't make calculations per se, the device was a glorified clock and was just a clever use of gears and springs. It didn't require any technology that we thought was unknown to the Greek of the period. Like I said, the Greek would thought it up gets a huge gold star for inspiration, but he didn't invent anything particularly advanced.

I believe I was mistaken. Although I'd swear I've read about Egyptian batteries, I can't find anything online except the Bahgdad Battery.

I've never heard of Egyptian electricity at all, except from a few people who also think that aliens helped build the Pyramids.

Interesting, yes? Regardless, I still think that many ancient civilizations were much more advanced than we give them credit for today.

Ancient civilizations are give plenty of credit, too much in fact, in some cases, like in the case of the Egyptians for instance.

[Drewcifer]

But it didn't make calculations per se, the device was a glorified clock and was just a clever use of gears and springs...

True, as I don't think the device allowed for variable input, which is probably more accurate in the definition of what a computer is.

I've never heard of Egyptian electricity at all, except from a few people who also think that aliens helped build the Pyramids....Ancient civilizations are give plenty of credit, too much in fact, in some cases, like in the case of the Egyptians for instance.

heh, I was making points in the wrong direction. Giving more credit to ancient civilizations is my answer to most claims of alien technological intervention in the past. Why do some people think that the Egyptians couldn't build the pyramids on their own, ya know? Why did they need little green men to build them?

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

FYI: Erich von Daniken was already talking about these "Indian supercivilizations" (plus a bunch of other stuff) in his "Chariots of the Gods"...etc books.

Fun to read, gives inspiration for writing.

[Peregrin Toker]

After all, when we describe the bronze age, the iron age, etc., it is implicit that they already possess enough technology for metalworking.

A prejudice on my part, I suppose. I'm a sucker for the romantic notion of the civilized barbarian.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Ancient civilizations are give plenty of credit, too much in fact, in some cases, like in the case of the Egyptians for instance.

Actually, there are some people who'd like you to have believe that all civilization is directly descended Ancient Egypt.

Of course, these Egyptocentrists are little better than Erich von Däniken.

FYI: Erich von Daniken was already talking about these "Indian supercivilizations" (plus a bunch of other stuff) in his "Chariots of the Gods"...etc books.

Fun to read, gives inspiration for writing.

If Erich von Däniken presented his ideas as fiction and not fact, I would have no problems with him - in fact, I would regard him as Switzerland's own H.P. Lovecraft.

However, the problem is that EvD would like to have people believe that his crazy ideas are true, and I find that quite disturbing.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

If Erich von Däniken presented his ideas as fiction and not fact, I would have no problems with him - in fact, I would regard him as Switzerland's own H.P, Lovecraft.

However, the problem is that EvD would like to have people believe that his crazy ideas are true, and I find that quite disturbing.

Very, very, disturbing because not only some people buy his ideas, they extend them with some their own tech stuff, like some fish-bird gold artifacts which are "rationalized" by a jet schematic drawn next to them.

The OP mentioning about Vimanas and the atomic war was a main part of EvD's ideas. He was quite fascinated about the Vimana because it seemed to be quite detailed in the scripts mentioned. Well...gives me a motivation to stockpile the ICS

*shudders* "Galaxy Quest" just blinked into my mind.

[Vympel]

This reminds me of the numerous moron Ancient astronaut theories.

[kojikun]

This reminds me of the numerous moron Ancient astronaut theories.

Yeah, those ancient astronauts were pretty stupid. I mean, why would you draw yourself on a mountain! You're an ancient astronaut, draw yourself on the MOON!

[Xenophobe3691]

This reminds me of the numerous moron Ancient astronaut theories.

Yeah, those ancient astronauts were pretty stupid. I mean, why would you draw yourself on a mountain! You're an ancient astronaut, draw yourself on the MOON!

Well DUH, what do you think the Man on the Moon is?!?

[kojikun]

Well DUH, what do you think the Man on the Moon is?!?

Its a RABBIT on the moon. And hes making RICE BALLS.

[Xenophobe3691]

Its a RABBIT on the moon. And hes making RICE BALLS.

Don't worry, you can think that, it won't hurt ya