Iraqi War Force Sub

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-22 02:23pm

Say that the second gulf war, right on the eve of the kickoff the equipment on both sides changes.

The US side suddenly finds itself fielding its own WWII era equipment. Abrams become Shermans, F-16 become Mustangs, B-52's become B-29's, etc. Even the soldier's sidearms and rifles are those of the era (Garands and 45 colts with Thompsons and BARs in the place of SAWs.)

US Naval forces also transform into WWII era counterparts, missile ships become cruisers, Ticonderogas become battleships and Carriers revert to Essex class carriers. Their aircraft complement transforms to fighter complements of the time.

The same happens to the Brits.

The Iraqis find themselves fielding German WWII era equipment. T-55's become Panzer IV's, T-64 are Tigers and the T-72's are whatever the high end German tank can be considered. The jets are replaced by ME-101's, etc. The same goes for the infantry, their AK's become the German equivalent, etc.

Assume that both sides through a miraculous flash imprint know how to operate their equipment as well as they did their modern counterparts.

Assume that the B-52's based out of England that are now B-29's teleport to airfields in Turkey and Kuwait to deal with the range issues.

Now assume that Sadaam morphs as in the Matrix into Erwin Rommel and through a miracle of flash imprinting knows the terrain of Iraq very well and that the troops are inspired to follow him.

FIGHT.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-08-22 03:11pm

They still lose in the end. Ph3r the almighty Sherman horde

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-22 05:07pm

The training of the US and UK military can still not be matched by the Iraqis. Their new modivation will not make up for their lacking the ability to shoot, move, and communicate. They will get slaughtered in even greater numbers due to their greater willingness to fight.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-22 05:13pm

The US swamps Iraq and captured the country in a month or so, it then easily garrisons the place with a half million men.

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-08-22 05:13pm

Even with the best equipment you can't win if you have no command structure, poor to no training and morons as your local commanders. Even an inspiring chief leader won't help much here.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-22 05:24pm

Generals only approve a plan than might work. It's the company grade and noncommissioned officers that win the battles.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-22 05:31pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Generals only approve a plan than might work. It's the company grade and noncommissioned officers that win the battles.

How about if we replace the Iraqi officer corps with the German officer corps in WWII?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-08-22 05:36pm

...you know, we beat the Germans the first time.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-22 05:39pm

HemlockGrey wrote:...you know, we beat the Germans the first time.

Yeah with the help of three or four other nations, and with massive numbers that we don't have in this scenario, three divisions of WWII era equipment against a foe that is at least willing to fight as well as the Germans did in WWII.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-08-22 05:41pm

If the US adopts a similar bombing policy to what it had in WW2, then probably 1 or 2 million Iraqis die in carpet-bombing raids on the major cities. If that doesn't work, nuke Karbala. Then Basra. Poof, unconditional surrender achieved, and it only cost a few million lives.

...you know, I think I prefer the weapons we have now.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-08-22 05:43pm

HemlockGrey wrote:...you know, we beat the Germans the first time.

Precisely, (Even though it was through sheer number {REF. normandy} and ALOT of luck {REF. Normandy} and iraq has nowhere near the organization or C&C structure the Germans had. And to the poster a few posts above. Ph34r THE SHERMAN HORDE!

Rommel lost through arrogance and bad supply lines. The supply lines in iraq are arguably as bad or worse. and that all goes back to C&C and organization.

American/brits stopm the living hell out of them. In addition, the civilian loss of life is STAGGERING due to no smart weaponry. MUAHAAHAHAHAAA LET THE CARPET BOMBING COMMENCE!

_____________________________EDIT____________________________

Americans/brits STOMP! UGh....fucking painkillers.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-23 06:21am

Stravo, Iraq never had T-64s. Those were never exported. You might mean T-62s.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-23 01:56pm

Stravo wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:...you know, we beat the Germans the first time.
Yeah with the help of three or four other nations, and with massive numbers that we don't have in this scenario, three divisions of WWII era equipment against a foe that is at least willing to fight as well as the Germans did in WWII.

The US wouldn't invade with three divisions, we'd bring about ten to fifteen to the fight. If your holding US forces to their historic level while boosting up the enemy massively it's a quite stupid scenario since the commanders would never launch an attack nor would the war be planned that way. 1940's weapons require a 1940's mentality.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-23 02:09pm

Stravo wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:...you know, we beat the Germans the first time.
Yeah with the help of three or four other nations, and with massive numbers that we don't have in this scenario, three divisions of WWII era equipment against a foe that is at least willing to fight as well as the Germans did in WWII.

Well, as others noted, then we'd be sending in a lot more divisions and airpower than what we sent to Iraq this year. One B-52 is worth a lot of B-29s, nevermind the naval forces we have in store. The qualitative advantage is not there to allow a mere three divisions to play.

Furthermore, American C3I at the time was better than the German C3I, so if you bring that over as well the US still has the lead.

And of course, if you continue the 1945 mindset, well, there will be no real issue with Boeing-deployed instant parking lots. They even glow in the dark!

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-08-23 02:13pm

Stravo wrote:How about if we replace the Iraqi officer corps with the German officer corps in WWII?

They still couldn't match the US and UK when it comes to noncommissioned officers. That disparity is HUGE.

Of course, with all these changes, we might as well drop the whole Iraq vs US and UK and simply refight WWII.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-23 02:25pm

phongn wrote:
And of course, if you continue the 1945 mindset, well, there will be no real issue with Boeing-deployed instant parking lots. They even glow in the dark!

Potholes must be pretty bad where you park