The world's stupidest lawsuit to be filed.

[EmperorSolo51]

Unlike the Exodus, we can prove that Jews have been living in Palestine since before Alexander the Great.

If tommorrow, some overwhelming peice of evidence is found indicating the Exodus story was at least partially true, true enough to validate the Egyptian's claims let's say, would the suit become then legitimate?

No, because (1) I believe the statute of limitations would have been long since run out. (2) you get moral questions like, "why should I pay for what my Great grand father to the 10th power had done some 3,000 years ago?"

[EmperorSolo51]

Indeed, they "welcomed" their new overlords so much that hundreds of thousands of them fled their homes using any means necessary in order to live in refugee camps

I believe he is talking about immigration to the Imperial Ottoman province of Palestine during the late 1800's. The Ottoman sultans encouraged Jewish immigration to Palestine because they brought with they brought lots of wealth to palestine and the Ottoman sultans saw these jews simply another group of people in which they could tax or possibly make some use out of the useless province. The new Ottoman jews began to buy or rent land to make some use out of it. The jewws began to make the land farmable by using European irrgation methods. The Ottoman Sultans in Constantinople were so impressed by this they allowed more Jewish settlers into Palestine, so long as they were to remain content with Ottoman citizenship.

[Wicked Pilot]

No, because (1) I believe the statute of limitations would have been long since run out. (2) you get moral questions like, "why should I pay for what my Great grand father to the 10th power had done some 3,000 years ago?"

So you don't think ancient land claims should be honored?

[EmperorSolo51]

No, because (1) I believe the statute of limitations would have been long since run out. (2) you get moral questions like, "why should I pay for what my Great grand father to the 10th power had done some 3,000 years ago?"

So you don't think ancient land claims should be honored?

No, I don't. However, Don't try and twist this around and say then Israel should not exist.

Jews were immigrating back to palestince since the 1890's, during the 1920's and 1930's and after WWII to 1948. The Jews were also granted a state by both the British and the UN and was recognized by both the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia (israel's main arms supplier during the war of independence), and the United States immediatly after Ben-Gurion proclaimed Indepence on may, 14th 1948. Therafter they fought a bloody war of independence in which they won the right to exist in the family of nations.

[Darth Wong]

No, I don't. However, Don't try and twist this around and say then Israel should not exist.

"Twist"? It's hardly a twist; Israel's existence is based on a millenia-old land claim. It is no less absurd than an Egyptian claim on stolen property from thousands of years ago or a Viking claim on North America.

Jews were immigrating back to palestince since the 1890's, during the 1920's and 1930's and after WWII to 1948.

Blacks have been immigrating to North America (sometimes against their will) for centuries, and they constitute a larger percentage of the population than the Jews did in the 1930s. Does this mean that America should be split in half by race?

The Jews were also granted a state by both the British and the UN and was recognized by both the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia (israel's main arms supplier during the war of independence), and the United States immediatly after Ben-Gurion proclaimed Indepence on may, 14th 1948.

Circular reasoning; you are justifying the fact that they were given statehood by citing the fact that they were given statehood. The real question is WHY they were given statehood on that land, and like it or not, the reason was an ancient land claim.

Therafter they fought a bloody war of independence in which they won the right to exist in the family of nations.

In the post-WW2 UN era when conquest by force of arms was no longer considered a legitimate path to statehood.

[Wicked Pilot]

No, I don't. However, Don't try and twist this around and say then Israel should not exist.

*snip

We have a ban on this subject. Have you been keeping up with the rules around here, or are you intentionally trying to start another supid Israel vs Palestein flame fest?

[Joe]

I agree that it's ridiculous to honor such claims, but the Jews didn't just swoop into Palestine and start demanding that the British honor their historical claim to it, they worked their asses off on it, mixing their labor with the land and making it their own. They did not force the native Palestinians to comply, either; early Zionism was quite peaceful compared to the violence we have today, with many Palestinians welcoming the "Jewish gold" that Zionism brought.

Indeed, they "welcomed" their new overlords so much that hundreds of thousands of them fled their homes using any means necessary in order to live in refugee camps

Events that occured only after the failed Arabic jihad to throw the Jews into the sea. I was referring to earlier Zionism.

[Wicked Pilot]

Ah fuck it! I've at least said all I needed to say about the legitimacy of the suit. You guys have fun.

[Darth Wong]

The suit is stupid because it is based on ancient property claims with questionable basis in fact. If people can't see the parallels to the original motivations behind 20th century Zionism, they're quite frankly either blind or self-delusional.

[EmperorSolo51]

No, I don't. However, Don't try and twist this around and say then Israel should not exist.

*snip

We have a ban on this subject. Have you been keeping up with the rules around here, or are you intentionally trying to start another supid Israel vs Palestein flame fest?

I was trying to make you would not use my statement of not recognizing land calims would not be used against me.

[EmperorSolo51]

"Twist"? It's hardly a twist; Israel's existence is based on a millenia-old land claim. It is no less absurd than an Egyptian claim on stolen property from thousands of years ago or a Viking claim on North America.

It's not just the bible they use as thier excuse for using palestine as homeland. They were also promised by the British to have Palestine as a homeland for helping fight against the Ottoman Empire during WWII.

Blacks have been immigrating to North America (sometimes against their will) for centuries, and they constitute a larger percentage of the population than the Jews did in the 1930s. Does this mean that America should be split in half by race?

No.

Circular reasoning; you are justifying the fact that they were given statehood by citing the fact that they were given statehood. The real question is WHY they were given statehood on that land, and like it or not, the reason was an ancient land claim.

They were given that land as part of the Balfour declaration of 1917 that promised Jewish Statehood in Palestine when the Jews in Palestine agreed to fight against the Ottoman Empire. This was reinforced by The British Peel Commission in 1936 and by UN resolution 181

In the post-WW2 UN era when conquest by force of arms was no longer considered a legitimate path to statehood.

Tell that to the Arabs when they invaded on 14 May 1948.

[Darth Wong]

Tell that to the Arabs when they invaded on 14 May 1948.

Yes, they "invaded" an invader's contested territory

[Joe]

Tell that to the Arabs when they invaded on 14 May 1948.

Yes, they "invaded" an invader's contested territory

What invasion?

[edit]On second thought, fuck it. This is gonna get ugly real quick and I'm getting out while I can.

[EmperorSolo51]

Tell that to the Arabs when they invaded on 14 May 1948.

Yes, they "invaded" an invader's contested territory

How was it contested? The British had used thier Mandate rights to give the Jews a state in palestine alongside an Arab one. The UN Reaffrimed this with Resolution 181. The arabs did not want to negotaite, they wanted to commit a new Halocaust by wiping out every jew in Palestine matter if they's lived there for centuries or not.

[Darth Wong]

Fine, go on with your "Israel is moral perfection of angelic beauty and A-rabs are a bunch of towel-headed raving homicidal maniacs" bullshit. This topic has long strayed over into moratorium territory, and it does not cover any remotely new ground on the subject. Locky locky.