Serious Question: How do you break up an engagement?

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-08-22 04:59pm

Don't suicide attempts land you a psychiatric ward for a minimum of 30 days anyway?

The best idea is to get her away from him, postehaste. Help her change her phone numbers, and make sure they're all unlisted fromhence. Have her get the DMV to block her address, as well as the Voter Registration Bureau, though I imagine he knows her address. She should immediately and permanently sever all connections with this guy, no matter what that entails.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-08-22 05:28pm

Thanks everybody, you are all right.

He has no respect for the value of his own life.

He is an attention seeking manipulating bastard.

And I couldnt care less if he decides to kill himself.

I talked to my friend this morning, she asked me what she should do, and I told her to tell him this "I cant respect anyone who doesnt value his own life." Then to give him his ring back, leave and never look back. She said she would. But I told her she should talk to the therapists at the hospital before deciding what to do.

Hopefully the doctors will see how crazy this guy is, and give him a nice long, much needed vacation in a padded cell...

She told me that she cant help but feel responsible for his condition, like it is all her fault, and that she owes him. I told her that is exactly what he wants her to feel. He is trying to emotional blackmail her into being with him.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-08-23 04:28am

It looks like it is all over!

She has decided to leave him!

She went to the hospital today to talk to the doctors and him about therapy, only to be ambushed by his family and friends who all blame her for causing this incident. Not exactly a friendly enviornment, so we talked it over for a while and decided that a Dear John letter would be best way for her to end this madness.

Best part of all, I got to help her write the Dear John letter!

We didnt write the traditional "its not you, its me" letter. We wrote a "Its me, but its also you, well mostly you," letter. I even managed to incorporate some select quotes provided by you guys who contributed to this thread. For that, i would like to thank everyone for their help.

Now all she has to do is deliever the letter and her engagement ring to the hospital tommorow, when his family arent there, and then leave the city. Then hopefully she can begin to put this nightmare behind her.

Lets just hope that everything goes as planned.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-08-23 04:49am

*Crosses fingers* PLEEEEEEEEEEASE Let everything go as planned!!!! WOO HOO!!! FINALLY!!! PERHAPS WORDS OF GOOD ADVICE MAY YET GO HEEDED!!!!

As an aside, If this actually happens, it will be the first time in my entire LIFE, that good advice will be taken, and followed through upon! I don't even know the girl, but I am SO happy for her!!! HURRAH FOR HER!!!

_______EDIT________

CRAP!!! I forgot to tell you, DONT YOU DARE TRUST HER TO DELIVER THAT LETTER BY HERSELF!!! YOU GO WITH HER!!! Make SURE it happens!!!

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-08-23 04:58am

Hooray!
I'm glad this looks like it's working out Macross.

Don't let her wlak right inot another one though!

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-22 11:52pm

Sorry to ressurect this thread again. But I just wanted to give a brief update.

Unfortunatly, things didnt go as planned at the hospital, she gave him the letter, and the ring, and was leaving when his family ambushed her, and guilted her into staying.

Since then things havent been that bad, but not that great either.... They have been talking alot on the phone and IM, and she thinks they are working things out... Needless to say, I dont.

Well tonight I got to talk to the bastard on ICQ. I sent her a message, but he was at her computer instead. After doing a little probing I determined that it was him and not her sister. Let me say that he is every bit the troll that she made him out to be. He threw insults and vauge threats at me, he dodged key issues and avoided serious questions. The conversation looked exactly like something you would find in the Hate Mail page.

I called him a coward, a maniuplator, and an attention seeking bastard, and he countered by attacking the words that I used.

My personal favorite was when he said 'I have given up A LOT for her." to which I responded "And what exactly have you given up?" He responded with more swearing, then he made demands, then more threats. Then he declared victory, and ran away.

I was surprised I was able to keep a civil tone during the entire conversation considering that this guy makes me so angry. If I learned anything from this board, its that a well articulated insult is much more satisfying then a random string of profranity.

Well hes back now, off for round two.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-09-23 12:14am

First, let me tell you a girl that went through the same thing (almost down to the letter). She is fine fortunately, but I chalk that up to her male friends having for-warned her now ex-husband what we would do to him if he hurt her.

However, I can tell you where this is going.

They will get married, and he will treat her like hell and cheat on her. Eventually, she will either get pregnant and he will leave her (as happened to my female friend), or else she and the kid(s) will be in for a life of hell.

My advice:
First, get your contact info blocked.

Sit her down again, talk to her (and if you need to, have her call me and I'll tell her what happened to my friend in more detail, PM for the phone number and a good time range) and tell her the guys family is no better, if not worse.

Now then, once you have done that, (I'm assuming that the fiance asshole does not have your contract info), get her to your place and SNAIL MAIL back the ring and Dear John letter. While your at it, get a restraining order on the family and the guy. Mail the ring and letter POST restraining order. Don't let her answer the phone while she's staying with you.

Have her go talk to a therapist and tell them the relationship and see if there is legal grounds for an emotional abuse case.

If that doesn't work, take your female friend shopping and tell her it's for the suit you are going to wear to her funeral after the fiance kills her.
(Cold but effective)

And if all else fails, have someone beat you up and lay charges for assault on the guy. (or something else)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-23 02:53am

The problem, ultimately, is the girl. She needs to find the courage to get the fuck out of this situation, and it sounds like she can't or won't do that. There's only so much you can do when she's not with the program.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-23 03:31am

Darth Wong wrote:The problem, ultimately, is the girl. She needs to find the courage to get the fuck out of this situation, and it sounds like she can't or won't do that. There's only so much you can do when she's not with the program.

Thats exactly what she said, that she lacked the courage to leave. I know she has it in her, but he is just wearing her down and crushing her spirit.

The other night, they got into an argument because she loves God, and he hates God, he then throws a hissy fit because she loves God more then she loves him. So what does he do, he tries to OD on some pills if she doesnt say she loves him more. Fortunatly, I was talking to her online at the time and I convinced her that he was bluffing. And he was.

They have these kinds of arguments all the time, and she is usually so exhausted afterward that she doesnt want to start another fight.

Hopefully this "conversation" I had with him will force the issue. He seemed to be in real denial that she wasnt happy. That is, when he actually said something other then calling me names, telling me to butt out of his business, and making vauge threats.

Solauren, you have some good ideas, I think the shock value of your "buying a suit" suggestion might just work on her.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-09-23 03:43am

Truely, smack your friend and say "What the fuck, is this what you really want. People who are in love are not suppost to be miserable. WAKE the FUCK UP before its TOO LATE!"

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-23 04:52am

The problem is what I already said earlier, abusers make their victims emotionally dependent on them so they can control and manipulate and shift blame, and they never take any responsibility for their actions. They make their victims' lives a living hell and convince the victims that it's their fault, and it's almost impossible for the victim to get out of that cycle on their own.

It took that friend of mine well over two years, and that was with all of her friends supporting her. I don't know how big my contribution was, but I approached it with my usual tact of telling her that her abusive boyfriend was a fuckwit who deserved to get beaten to a pulp for being such an asshole to her and that she deserved better. She knew at that time that I had some feelings for her, and I treated her right, so she did get to see some contrast, and with the help from everyone else, she finally managed to drag up the courage to throw him out.

Then there's one of my more recent run-ins with people who abuse others emotionally, which was made public here, and you can witness there for yourself a typical abuser reverting exactly to type: "I didn't mean anything", "It's not my fault", "I'm really, really sorry (because nobody likes me anymore)", "You're all just blinded by hatred", yadda, yadda, yadda. They're all cut from the same cloth, just like the WCOTC donkey-rapists.

A relevant distillation on the nature of abusers is from a reply a close friend of mine gave that asshole:

Bethgael wrote:I am not blinded by hatred, for I wasn't one of your victims. I don't hate people. I am completely impassive on this issue. I have worked in the domestic violence sector, I've been experienced in the domestic violence and child abuse sectors, I know your type. When I say I don't believe you, hatred has nothing to do with it.

It's because I've heard every excuse in the book by others who have acted just as you have.

Abusers are always very, very sorry. For themselves and what they have lost. You have spoken very much about what "you've" lost. I don't think you even begin to understand the harm you've caused to others. I don't think anyone can explain it to you. there is always a "honeymoon" period just after they offend and not long before they do it again.

Abusers always blame their victims. You don't think that all of those "humans are so stupid" comments don't have a loaded meaning now? You don't think that telling US that WE "should have convinced you to tell the truth" in the email to Edi 2 days ago isn't putting the responsibility for YOUR lies back on OUR shoulders?

Abusers never understand the harm they have caused. It was always "harmless". They will not change, because they never think they did anything wrong.

Abusers are very often defended by their victims. Their victims have an emotional investment in the outcome.

Abusers *always* reoffend.

The backsliding in your friend's case is typical, Macross, and you need to constantly counter it. This also means that whenever possible, your friend should not be left to deal with the asshole's family on her own, because she needs somebody there to support her and tell them to fuck off so they can't guilt-trip her. Your friend still has the guilt-hooks attached that the asshole planted in her mind, and he and his family will be able to jerk her around by them if nobody else helps her cut them out. Right now she's pretty isolated and even when she's being told the lay of things by those who honestly care about her and she knows it's true, she is going to have an incredibly hard time acting on it, because of those emotional wounds that are still raw and constantly abraded so they can't heal.

If nothing else helps, show her this thread, or show her the quote from my friend and that AoWH thread, and tell her that there is no difference between her "fiance" and the other fucker. None.

Additionally, as some people already said, your friend's abuser is a completely psychotic case and sooner or later (probably sooner) he is going to turn violent and he is by all indications someone who could and would kill her if pushed enough. She's in real danger, and needs to get out, NOW.

Edi

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-23 04:55am

She needs more friends like you. And slapping her won't fix it. Just keep nagging, she will come around eventually.

But make sure she knows this: NO ONE who threatens suicide to get their way is worth the effort it takes to spit on them. he's a spiteful, emotional blackmailing piece of shit, and his family are just as bad. Get her out a la Solauren

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-23 05:11am

Darth Wong wrote:The problem, ultimately, is the girl. She needs to find the courage to get the fuck out of this situation, and it sounds like she can't or won't do that. There's only so much you can do when she's not with the program.

Mike, yes, her lack of courage is a big part of the problem, but that's exactly why it's important to support her in every way possible, it's a very hard thing for a victim of this type of abuse to build it up on their own, and they need all the help they can get. There's a reason why abusers grind away the victim's self-confidence first and make them emotionally dependent, and that's so they can continue the abuse. If you abandon the victim to just sink or swim, he or she will drown. I've witnessed the effects from close up in another case in RL where it took two years from decision to leave the fucker to actually accomplish it, we saw how messed up Innerbrat got with her personal life just a while ago before she recovered (Congrats, IB

), you can take a look at the link I posted and pay attention to the behavior of the Skullking fellow when he appears, all these are exactly the same situation.

And having been somewhat on the receiving end of similar shit myself at one point, it was no different. Once you get ground down by feelings of guilt, without outside help you'll be left twisting in the wind, because they can always be used to yank you around. You're in the fortunate position of not needing to ever learn what it's like, but not everyone is as lucky as you were to find Rebecca for your soulmate.

Not that you aren't right in a sense, but the last thing anybody interested in helping should do is blame the victim. Any hint of that, and it's back down the spiral we go again.

Edi

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-25 02:47am

Thanks for the support. I must say that at times I do feel like that I am way over my head and accomplishing nothing and I think that it would it best to let her sort this out on her own, but after reading your post Edi, I see that that would be a big mistake. In fact, it has given me new resolve to fight this thing through to the bitter end.

My friend talked to me today, which is a good sign as she is clearly ignoring his order forbidding her to contact me. She was very apologetic that I had to put up with his crap, but apparently he had been online all day screening her friends.

So today, I was able to give her my first hand impressions of this guy. In the long run, I think I am better off for having had met this guy, now my impressions are no longer based on what she tells me, I have seen for myself what a possesive control freak this guy really is.

I told her that the "love for her" he speaks about is not the love between a man and a women, but rather the love between someone and a prized possesion. I told her that she is nothing but a throphy to him, and this seemed to have had an effect on her as she could no longer continue our conversation with me and needed to lie down.

When I speak to her again, I plan on showing her the entire chat log of our conversation. That way she can see how much of a "nice guy" he really is.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-25 02:55am

Macross wrote:When I speak to her again, I plan on showing her the entire chat log of our conversation. That way she can see how much of a "nice guy" he really is.

Ha. I encourage this maneuver.

In fact, anything that works to separate your friend from this controlling bastard has my vote of approval.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-25 05:09am

Kuja wrote:Ha. I encourage this maneuver.

In fact, anything that works to separate your friend from this controlling bastard has my vote of approval.

Well I just talked to her online and sent her the log file, and she was HORRIFIED by what she read. So horrified that she printed out a hard-copy and is now showing it to all her friends.

I feel vindicated. I so tempted to ask her for his ICQ number so I can send him a message. Since he thinks all of this is some big game with her as the trophy prize, I want to tell him "I win"

But I dont think that would be appropriate...at this time.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-25 05:41am

Macross, I'm glad I was able to help, but forget about any games of oneupmanship with that fucker. He's not worth it, and more importantly, if you do it and your friend finds out, she'll feel betrayed and that you're also treating her like a trophy. Once she really dumps him for good, it'll be okay to express your contempt for the asshole when anybody mentions his name in conversation, but going out of your way to taunt him the way you're talking about here is not a good thing by any measure. If you do that now, you'll just hurt your friend, and worse, risk setting her up for a backslide.

You've been very smart and grownup about this so far, don't fuck everything up now with an immature pissing contest.

Edi

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-25 03:40pm

Edi wrote:Macross, I'm glad I was able to help, but forget about any games of oneupmanship with that fucker. He's not worth it, and more importantly, if you do it and your friend finds out, she'll feel betrayed and that you're also treating her like a trophy. Once she really dumps him for good, it'll be okay to express your contempt for the asshole when anybody mentions his name in conversation, but going out of your way to taunt him the way you're talking about here is not a good thing by any measure. If you do that now, you'll just hurt your friend, and worse, risk setting her up for a backslide.

You've been very smart and grownup about this so far, don't fuck everything up now with an immature pissing contest.

Edi

Yes, you are absolutly right. This guy just gets under my skin and I just want to get under his skin a little. My conversation with him seemed to have no effect on him. I tell him that he is ruining her life and he repsonds by saying "he doesnt care."

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-09-25 05:06pm

Odds are, he'll put 2 and 2 together when she leaves him, realise you had a hand in it, and that will get under his skin worse then a tatoo