NDEs

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Rye
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NDEs

Post by Rye »

Tell me what you think of this:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a patient named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as "hypothermic cardiac arrest." It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life.

Pam was participating in an Atlanta near-death study by Dr. Sabom at the time of her standstill operation. As her operation was being performed, she experienced an NDE. Her remarkably detailed out-of-body observations, during her surgery, was later verified to be very accurate. The following is the account of her NDE in Pam's own words.

"The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became. I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.

"I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not ...

"The saw-thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't ... And the saw had interchangeable blades, too, but these blades were in what looked like a socket wrench case ... I heard the saw crank up. I didn't see them use it on my head, but I think I heard it being used on something. It was humming at a relatively high pitch and then all of a sudden it went Brrrrrrrrr! like that.

"Someone said something about my veins and arteries being very small. I believe it was a female voice and that it was Dr. Murray, but I'm not sure. She was the cardiologist. I remember thinking that I should have told her about that ... I remember the heart-lung machine. I didn't like the respirator ... I remember a lot of tools and instruments that I did not readily recognize.

"There was a sensation like being pulled, but not against your will. I was going on my own accord because I wanted to go. I have different metaphors to try to explain this. It was like the Wizard of Oz - being taken up in a tornado vortex, only you're not spinning around like you've got vertigo. You're very focused and you have a place to go. The feeling was like going up in an elevator real fast. And there was a sensation, but it wasn't a bodily, physical sensation. It was like a tunnel but it wasn't a tunnel.

"At some point very early in the tunnel vortex I became aware of my grandmother calling me. But I didn't hear her call me with my ears ... It was a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that sense more than I trust my own ears.

"The feeling was that she wanted me to come to her, so I continued with no fear down the shaft. It's a dark shaft that I went through, and at the very end there was this very little tiny pinpoint of light that kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

"The light was incredibly bright, like sitting in the middle of a light bulb. It was so bright that I put my hands in front of my face fully expecting to see them and I could not. But I knew they were there. Not from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain, but I knew they were there ...

"I noticed that as I began to discern different figures in the light - and they were all covered with light, they were light, and had light permeating all around them - they began to form shapes I could recognize and understand. I could see that one of them was my grandmother. I don't know if it was reality or a projection, but I would know my grandmother, the sound of her, anytime, anywhere.

"Everyone I saw, looking back on it, fit perfectly into my understanding of what that person looked like at their best during their lives.

"I recognized a lot of people. My uncle Gene was there. So was my great-great-Aunt Maggie, who was really a cousin. On Papa's side of the family, my grandfather was there ... They were specifically taking care of me, looking after me.

"They would not permit me to go further ... It was communicated to me - that's the best way I know how to say it, because they didn't speak like I'm speaking - that if I went all the way into the light something would happen to me physically. They would be unable to put this me back into the body me, like I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect. So they wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything.

"I wanted to go into the light, but I also wanted to come back. I had children to be reared. It was like watching a movie on fast-forward on your VCR: You get the general idea, but the individual freeze-frames are not slow enough to get detail.

"Then they [deceased relatives] were feeding me. They were not doing this through my mouth, like with food, but they were nourishing me with something. The only way I know how to put it is something sparkly. Sparkles is the image that I get. I definitely recall the sensation of being nurtured and being fed and being made strong. I know it sounds funny, because obviously it wasn't a physical thing, but inside the experience I felt physically strong, ready for whatever.

"My grandmother didn't take me back through the tunnel, or even send me back or ask me to go. She just looked up at me. I expected to go with her, but it was communicated to me that she just didn't think she would do that. My uncle said he would do it. He's the one who took me back through the end of the tunnel. Everything was fine. I did want to go.

"But then I got to the end of it and saw the thing, my body. I didn't want to get into it ... It looked terrible, like a train wreck. It looked like what it was: dead. I believe it was covered. It scared me and I didn't want to look at it.

"It was communicated to me that it was like jumping into a swimming pool. No problem, just jump right into the swimming pool. I didn't want to, but I guess I was late or something because he [the uncle] pushed me. I felt a definite repelling and at the same time a pulling from the body. The body was pulling and the tunnel was pushing ... It was like diving into a pool of ice water ... It hurt!

"When I came back, they were playing "Hotel California" and the line was "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." I mentioned [later] to Dr. Brown that that was incredibly insensitive and he told me that I needed to sleep more. [laughter] When I regained consciousness, I was still on the respirator."

For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.

Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during an NDE:

"The brain isn’t functioning. It’s not there. It’s destroyed. It’s abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don’t know what’s happening and the brain isn’t working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won’t remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [an NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."
She clearly was NOT brain dead by the official definition if she was revived.

My inner skeptic proposes that the machines were faulty, or the measurements, as i find that far more likely, than her literally being braindead and interpreting things that were said and soforth...

Your thoughts?
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Trytostaydead
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Post by Trytostaydead »

The brain is an incredibly complex system that in the past 50 years we've only begun to THINK we're beginning to understand. Meaning, we still know jack and shit about it.

What COULD'VE happened is maybe her subconcious was still picking up audio cues in the environment and putting it into her "scripts" and into a vivid dream. Scripts are what some researchers refer to as basic templates where a person puts fragmented information to pull up a complete picture. Such as when someone says "I drank coffee at Starbucks." We INFER in our mind that they paid the bill, waited for the coffee, stirred it, etc etc. And sometimes state our inferences as facts.

Perhaps she did some research before going into the surgery and the sounds transmuted themselves into a clear picture in her dream.

The vague tunnel and deceased relatives is a common enough tale of NDE's that it may have been her imagination putting it together.

OR.. the very big WHAT IF, what if there is a soul? There is no way we can provide evidence for or against it. Sure, people can live by or disclaim just about every religion out there. But the soul is something else. Perhaps the religions are wrong in most regards, but right in the idea that there is more to our sentinence and self-awareness than several trillion connections of synapses?

I mean, if you study neural development, it's an incredibly complex mind-boggling system that while follows certain formats for development and positioning of pathways, the actual development is mind-boggling random in the synaptic plasticity of neurogenesis.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

I had a near death experience once. I was several thousand feet above the Earth's surface, strapped to a AT-38 pulling close to 7Gs. As the blood rushed from my brain to my feet, I began to lose my vision. First to go was my perephial. Then I started to lose color. Grey spots started appearing, and then I went into tunnel mode. My vision collapsed around me, all I could see was a small light at the end of a long dark tunnel. I started becoming oblivious to the world around me except for my breathing and the straining of my legs. Right as everything went dark, I eased off on the stick, the plane leveled off, and I recovered almost instantly.

What a rush! I can't wait to go again.
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Jason von Evil
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Post by Jason von Evil »

Wicked Pilot wrote:I had a near death experience once. I was several thousand feet above the Earth's surface, strapped to a AT-38 pulling close to 7Gs. As the blood rushed from my brain to my feet, I began to lose my vision. First to go was my perephial. Then I started to lose color. Grey spots started appearing, and then I went into tunnel mode. My vision collapsed around me, all I could see was a small light at the end of a long dark tunnel. I started becoming oblivious to the world around me except for my breathing and the straining of my legs. Right as everything went dark, I eased off on the stick, the plane leveled off, and I recovered almost instantly.

What a rush! I can't wait to go again.
You sir, are a nut. :lol:
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Einhander Sn0m4n
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Aya wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:I had a near death experience once. I was several thousand feet above the Earth's surface, strapped to a AT-38 pulling close to 7Gs. As the blood rushed from my brain to my feet, I began to lose my vision. First to go was my perephial. Then I started to lose color. Grey spots started appearing, and then I went into tunnel mode. My vision collapsed around me, all I could see was a small light at the end of a long dark tunnel. I started becoming oblivious to the world around me except for my breathing and the straining of my legs. Right as everything went dark, I eased off on the stick, the plane leveled off, and I recovered almost instantly.

What a rush! I can't wait to go again.
You sir, are a nut. :lol:
He fucking R0X0RZ T3H H4U5!

/me wants a T-38 or an F-104...
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Wicked Pilot
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Aya wrote:You sir, are a nut. :lol:
Hey, flying a T-38 is the funnest thing you can do with your pants still on.
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