Greek Fire?

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-08-19 11:34pm

Quick question. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...what is it? Some sort of ancient incendiary cannon?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-19 11:48pm

Badme wrote:Quick question. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...what is it? Some sort of ancient incendiary cannon?

It's fired through cylinders and it causes whatever it touches to catch on fire. Very effectively. It's supposed to have been able to burn under water. Sort of like an earlier form of napalm.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-20 12:03am

Durran Korr wrote:
Badme wrote:Quick question. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...what is it? Some sort of ancient incendiary cannon?
It's fired through cylinders and it causes whatever it touches to catch on fire. Very effectively. It's supposed to have been able to burn under water. Sort of like an earlier form of napalm.

Quick read here.
The period artwork is interesting. I've only seen that one piece reproduced. It may be the only pictorial record?

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-08-20 12:04am

(whoops)

greece.org wrote: Greek Fire was the secret weapon of the Eastern Roman Emperors. It is said to have been invented by a Syrian Engineer, one Callinicus, a refugee from Maalbek, in the seventh century (673 AD). The "liquid fire" was hurled on to the ships of their enemies from siphons and burst into flames on contact. As it was reputed to be inextinguishable and burned even on water, it caused panic and dread. Its introducation into warfare of its time was comparable in its demoralizing influence to the introducation of nuclear weapons in our time. Both Arab and Greek sources agree that it surpassed all incendiary weapons in destruction. The secret behind the Greek fire was handed down from one emperor to the next for centuries. Rumors about its composition include such chemicals as liquid petroleum, naphtha, burning pitch, sulphur, resin, quicklimeand bitumen, along with some other "secret ingredient". The exact composition, however, remains unknown. For a thorough investigation of the weapon one can refer to Professor J.R. Partington's book, "A history of the Greek Fire and Gunpowder", Heffer, 1960. This volume quotes the ancient authorities extensively, with an excellent commentary. It also examines ancient and modern theories on the composition of the chemicals used in the Greek Fire. This is considered the most up to date source on the subject.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-08-20 05:48am

Frank Hipper wrote:The period artwork is interesting. I've only seen that one piece reproduced. It may be the only pictorial record?

I think it is, I've never seen any other picture describing the "Greek Fire", and this one is always used in literature when mention is made to it.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-08-20 10:11am

Very interesting. It's amazing that such a weapon was employed at that time!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-20 01:31pm

All theories I've heard suggest that Greek Fire was some sort of primitive napalm.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-08-20 02:46pm

They attempted a reproduction on Discovery Channel recently, the mixture they used was mostly crude oil from a seep well, that is in an area where there have been seep wells historically. Wild thing is, they pre-heated it over an open fire, this on board a small replica galley. The local Maltese fire department was close at hand.

Had a range of around 50 feet, using my calibrated eyeball method. A simple hand pump, a nozzle with a burning wick on the end, and you have Dark Ages firey destruction.

I believe the Byzantine's equipment would have been a little more practical for some reason though, the TV team had a problem with the fluid leaking. Fire hazard ahoy......

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-08-24 07:54am

I love the smell of...Greek Fire in the morning!

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-08-24 07:56am

Whatever it was, it sure fried the Russians and Arabs pretty good. I wonder how the Mongols would have done.........

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-08-24 05:06pm

Darth Gojira wrote:Whatever it was, it sure fried the Russians and Arabs pretty good. I wonder how the Mongols would have done.........

Were they fire resistant? =P

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-08-24 07:46pm

Probably would've run, licked their wounds, analyzed how the new weapon worked, and attacked in a much more effective way. These guys weren't afraid to run like the Europeans...

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-08-24 08:10pm

Another interesting Greek Fire factoid:
The Emperor specifically ordered his diplomats to lie to foreigners, friend and foe alike, if they asked about Greek Fire. There was even an official lie which they were to tell. Apparently angels descended directly from heaven just after the beginning of the Arab onslaught and bequeethed the secret of Greek Fire to the Emperor on the sole condition that he would never divulge it to any person outside the empire. To do so would sunder Byzantium and the formula would cease to work anyway.

This was a suitably apocalyptic way to discourage foreigners from asking twice, I think

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-08-24 08:26pm

One day we'll find the secret to this lying in a garbage heap somewheres...

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