Reforming the bad guy...

Bug-Eyed Earl · Post by **Bug-Eyed Earl** » 2003-08-31 05:39am

One thing I hate in fanfics is the Mary Sue character changing the bad guy and helping him reform. One of the worst examples in recent memory is the movie version of Bullseye, because of all the little retards who lust after Colin Farrell. Gee, despite how gleefully he brutalized and gutted Elektra, the fact that he killed Karen Page in the comics, and the simple fact that he kills for fun in both movieand comic.

What are some examples you especially despise?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-31 10:48am

Not a case of "bad-guy-turning-good" per se, but:

As a Lovecraft fan, I can't help but dislike the way August Derleth turned Lord Nodens from an enigmatic, indifferent but occassionally helpful deity into a C.S. Lewis-style allegory for God.

(Isn't the Cthulhu Mythos, in fact, the earliest case of fanfics??)

God Emperor · Post by **God Emperor** » 2003-08-31 08:31pm

I would think so, was looking at it at Barnes and Noble and only a few are actually written by Lovecraft.

Stormin · Post by **Stormin** » 2003-08-31 09:38pm

When I write, I prefer to not actually have any clear-cut good or bad guys. Rather it revolves around differing goals and means whether or not those goals or means are repugnant to the reader or the protag they are never really bad.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-01 08:22am

Stormin wrote:When I write, I prefer to not actually have any clear-cut good or bad guys. Rather it revolves around differing goals and means whether or not those goals or means are repugnant to the reader or the protag they are never really bad.

I have opted for a different approach in my "Wormhole War" - the closest thing to a protagonist in the story is actually the central villain, Supreme Potentate Zxavor.

So as the story develops, we still despise him but deep inside sympathise with him. (OK, it hasn't developed that far yet)

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-09-01 10:25am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Stormin wrote:When I write, I prefer to not actually have any clear-cut good or bad guys. Rather it revolves around differing goals and means whether or not those goals or means are repugnant to the reader or the protag they are never really bad.
I have opted for a different approach in my "Wormhole War" - the closest thing to a protagonist in the story is actually the central villain, Supreme Potentate Zxavor.

So as the story develops, we still despise him but deep inside sympathise with him. (OK, it hasn't developed that far yet)

Reminds me of Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chornicle sof Thomas Covenant the Unbeleiver. One my English teachers tried to read through that, but couldn't because she hated the main character (Covenant) so damn much. Her comment was (Paraphrased) "I mean, it was really good writing, because it inspred that much emotion in me, but I just couldn't read through it because of it."

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-01 11:14am

Singular Quartet wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Stormin wrote:When I write, I prefer to not actually have any clear-cut good or bad guys. Rather it revolves around differing goals and means whether or not those goals or means are repugnant to the reader or the protag they are never really bad.
I have opted for a different approach in my "Wormhole War" - the closest thing to a protagonist in the story is actually the central villain, Supreme Potentate Zxavor.

So as the story develops, we still despise him but deep inside sympathise with him. (OK, it hasn't developed that far yet)
Reminds me of Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chornicle sof Thomas Covenant the Unbeleiver. One my English teachers tried to read through that, but couldn't because she hated the main character (Covenant) so damn much. Her comment was (Paraphrased) "I mean, it was really good writing, because it inspred that much emotion in me, but I just couldn't read through it because of it."

Must be coincidence - I've never read "Thomas Covenant". The catalyst for putting Zxavor as the protagonist would be to make it sort of "insight into the mind of a tyrant"... revealing that The Great Leader on the inside is very small.

However - there are many other literary works where the protagonist is the villain.

As for progress on The Wormhole War - I've soon finished 8th chapter. It just needs a little "polish".

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-01 01:38pm

[shameless plug] Okay, now I've posted the eight chapter!! [/shameless plug]

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-02 10:06am

Covenant was annoying as fuck in the first trilogy, I really wanted to strangle that character. The second was much better, but that's because Linden Avery isn't half as annoying as Covenant in the first, which is still a big teeth-gritter.

As for the protagonist reforming the villains, well, there is nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, who beats Terry Goodkind's Richard Rahl in this respect. He just arrives on the scene and they get struck by divine inspiration and see the error of their ways.

Yeah, right. Well, Goodkind's books aren't worth the paper they're printed on anyway.

Oh, we were talking about fanfics? Never mind then...

Edi

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-09-02 07:10pm

Singular Quartet wrote: Reminds me of Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chornicle sof Thomas Covenant the Unbeleiver. One my English teachers tried to read through that, but couldn't because she hated the main character (Covenant) so damn much. Her comment was (Paraphrased) "I mean, it was really good writing, because it inspred that much emotion in me, but I just couldn't read through it because of it."

Aye. Donaldson is a gifted writer, and when you reach the end, you can actually begin to sympathise with Covenant. But before that, he makes you want to kill the fucker slowly.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-09-07 05:26am

1001 nights,

The Main character reforms the main bad guy by fucking his brains out, to the point that he is no longer a Mysogynistic Sadist, but actually cares about women in general.

Then again that might actualy work in an H fic or two....

the sadistic villian runs into a heroine that is actually prepared and more then willing to tame him for the sake of the rest of womankind....