The movie Red Dawn

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-09-01 12:29am

I thought it was interesting as a piece of alternate history, what do ya'll think of it as?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-09-01 12:44am

It was alright. Didn't even seem too bad.

I remember some parts making me want to scream in frustration at them existing, but not the scenes themselves.

But then again, I had to remember they're a bunch of high school kids. And they did damned well for high school kids, IMO.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-01 12:49am

I remember watching the movie and it really bugging me that the Soviet invasion forces could elude our air defenses enough to air drop troops into Montanna and the west without a warning being tripped. Do you have any idea the numer of troops neccessary to garrison the US much less overcome her defenses?

Also was anyone paying attention to the way the war was shaping up from the outside. For instance a siege of Denver. Nuking 80 divisions preparing to cross into Alaska. My personal favorite: "Who is on our side?" "700 million screaming chinamen." "I thought there were a billion Chinese?" "There were." Powers Booth VERY cool.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-09-01 01:06am

I think the most shocking scene for me was when the paratroopers descended around the school. Since I was a junior when I first saw it(I'm only a senior now), I could tell how different that would be and wondered what I would do in that situation. How old were ya'll when ya'll first saw this movie and what year was it?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 01:11am

The movie was entertaining but the premise was so much crap piled upon so much more its not even funny. Though some of the later guerrilla stuff wasn't that horrible. What is funny is that the T-72's built for use in the movie were so accurate that the CIA showed up to ask where they'd come from.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-01 01:14am

Sea Skimmer wrote:The movie was entertaining but the premise was so much crap piled upon so much more its not even funny. Though some of the later guerrilla stuff wasn't that horrible. What is funny is that the T-72's built for use in the movie were so accurate that the CIA showed up to ask where they'd come from.

Seriously the minutae mastery that Skimmer has about these things scares the shit out of me sometimes.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-09-01 01:18am

I thought it was alright but my memory is sketchy last time I saw it was five years ago. I remember the air drop, air force captain, and the guys going into the woods, but what was the premise or how did the war start?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 01:24am

Captain Lennox wrote:I thought it was alright but my memory is sketchy last time I saw it was five years ago. I remember the air drop, air force captain, and the guys going into the woods, but what was the premise or how did the war start?

The world goes to hell with NATO disbanding, the Soviets then launch a limited nuclear attack, airdrop troops in to the western US from transports disguised as civilian flights. Then they somehow move 60 divisions from Siberia to Alaska and I guess drive to the lower 48... Anyway a group of high school students see the troops landing and flee into the mountains with a bunch of camping gear and guns. They go back to town some time later and find that it's overrun with commies. Then they start up a resistance and along the way find a downed air force pilot. Who they later return back to US lines, he's the one who explains what had happened to them.

Among there exploits are freeing a bunch of political prisoners and later raiding a major Soviet base in which all but one IIRC is killed. The Soviet commander who had been hunting them from some time has a heart and lets him walk away carrying his fatally wounded friend.

There's also one scene in which a Cuban commander, there in on it as well, has his men get the local gun ownership records and uses it to round up all the local weapons, killing anyone who can't account for them. This is why gun registration is evil, if the commies ever invade they'll turn them against us.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-09-01 01:26am

Actually, it was his brother, not just his friend.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-09-01 02:08am

I wanted to see some phone phreaks and stuff do shit also.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-09-01 02:25am

Okay wasn't there a scene in that movie where one of the kids shoots some sort of anti-tank weapon at a Hind helicopter? He hits it but it only kills the crew in the rear compartment the rest of the helicopter is fine and ends up wasting him.

I also remember the part where they peel the gun from the cold dead hands of a guy who died right next to the bumpersticker that said the same thing.

So gun registration = bad.

Trying to fight soldiers with personal hand guns = also bad.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-01 02:41am

I thought it was pretty cool considering the time frame it came out and the age I was when I first viewed it. I was in middle school at the time, and the Soviet Union was still our enemy. I thought the whole NATO dissolving after the Greens take control of Germany was hokey, but I dont remember really being upset at anything else. The deer seen I could have done without.

Hehe, its funny the things you think are cool when you are in 7th grade or so. I remember the show made the news cause of the violence, I vaugely remember sneaking in or something. My mom wouldnt buy tickets for me.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-09-01 07:07am

That movie was a great big pile of shit for reasons stated above and more.

Ok, the full scale soviet invasion... Did the soviet leaders suddenly become retarded and forget completely about the MAD concept?
Did the US leaders suddenly become retarded and forget to impliment it?
Bunch of high school kids beating the soviet army? ...right.
A soviet suddenly decides to let one of the kids carry off a wounded comrade? Well in a way it does answer the first question. This bunch of kids has just made you the laughing stock of Moscow and you're going to let this guy live so he can come back later and kill some more of your soldiers?

Where the hell were US infantry and armour? Those communists should have been made to pay for every square inch of soil US soil with a tanker of blood with the amount of bombardment they would have been getting.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-09-01 01:41pm

I enjoyed the hell out of that movie, really, and thought that as war movies from Hollywood go it was one of the better ones.

For one, they went all out and made some damn impressive looking visual modifications to creat Soviet vehicles. The T72s, the ZSU-23-4s, etc, etc... Sure there were some oddities-- no movie is perfect, and I thought it very funny indeed that Soviet Naval Aviation YaK-38 'Forgers' were based... in Colorado.

As for the kids beating the Soviet army-- bear in mind many of the enemy troops in Colorado were supposed to be Nicaraguan, not Soviet regulars. ('member the line: "I heard some of them speaking Spanish!").

Also, the deer scene was provided for one very important reason: it showed that the leaders of the kids, the two brothers, were acquainted with guns, the local woods, and living off the land. That allowed them to display some primitive concept of tactics that the Colonel was later able to improve upon. At first the kids tried to avoid contact with the Sovies, their first kills were accidental and forced upon them by the soldiers playing tourist at the historical monument.

The kids started off with knowledge of local hunting and terrain and advanced Western designed hunting weapons. That gave them just as much if not more than the Afghanis had at the begining of the 1979 invasion, when they mostly had flintlocks. The unrealistic part comes in when the band of kids is so small and isolated, compared to larger and networked Afghan tribes.

They didn't start doing truly spectacular or daring raids until after the Colonel got ahold of them and taught them military tactics. Even then, the kids eventually got slaughtered by the Soviets except for the handful that ran away. That does not stretch reality too much, I think; but the brothers should have been chopped to shit as soon as they entered the city's occupied command post. The kids also suffered at the hands of betrayers and opportunists that collaborated witht he Commies, again, realistic in any occupation scenario.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-09-01 01:46pm

I don't think the kids "beat" the Soviet Army. They were just a major irritant that helped keep them occupied. IIRC, the pilot was already mentioning how the US was regrouping and pushing the commie bastards back.

What I would've LOVED to see was what the US did to Russia afterwards? I'm sure most the the Soviet forces were deployed in the US and after they got beaten.. would the Chinese have swept through Russia? NATO countries? Germany and France would've just sat there is my guess :-\

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-09-01 02:06pm

The movie may be crap,but they did a better job than the big budget in having the exact machines we see in the film.

example:Top Gun mig 29s they`re freaking F-5 dammit,Rambo movies the helicopters gunship are not even russians just some crap made by a dumbass.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-01 02:16pm

Montcalm wrote:The movie may be crap,but they did a better job than the big budget in having the exact machines we see in the film.

example:Top Gun mig 29s they`re freaking F-5 dammit,Rambo movies the helicopters gunship are not even russians just some crap made by a dumbass.

Dont forget Magnum PI. I remember one show where some F-4's scramble to intercept another F-4 but the pilots say "Its a MIG!".

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-09-01 02:19pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
Montcalm wrote:The movie may be crap,but they did a better job than the big budget in having the exact machines we see in the film.

example:Top Gun mig 29s they`re freaking F-5 dammit,Rambo movies the helicopters gunship are not even russians just some crap made by a dumbass.
Dont forget Magnum PI. I remember one show where some F-4's scramble to intercept another F-4 but the pilots say "Its a MIG!".

I was just thinking about Iron Eagle II where the Mig 29s were F-4s. Couldn't they have convinced the Navy to loan them some F/A-18s? At the time everyone thought the Mig 29 was a copy of it based on stolen plans anyway.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-09-01 02:23pm

Tsyroc wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:
Montcalm wrote:The movie may be crap,but they did a better job than the big budget in having the exact machines we see in the film.

example:Top Gun mig 29s they`re freaking F-5 dammit,Rambo movies the helicopters gunship are not even russians just some crap made by a dumbass.
Dont forget Magnum PI. I remember one show where some F-4's scramble to intercept another F-4 but the pilots say "Its a MIG!".
I was just thinking about Iron Eagle II where the Mig 29s were F-4s. Couldn't they have convinced the Navy to loan them some F/A-18s? At the time everyone thought the Mig 29 was a copy of it based on stolen plans anyway.

We can continue this in the thread i`ve just made.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-09-01 02:23pm

Iron Eagle 2 was the worst. For some reason US Airforce pilots thought F4s were Migs, and for some reason the Russians got a hold of F4s and decided to claim they built them as Migs...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-01 02:36pm

I've never seen Red Dawn, but from what I've heard it seems like yet another Silly Action Movie From The Eighties, but with a bigger-than-usual budget.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-09-01 03:40pm

They were MiG-28s in Top Gun, so that can be sorta okay given they didn't use an actual MiG model. That and Hollywood movie studios can't go to the USSR and ask for some MiGs for a photoshoot.

"Oh we won't let the CIA look at them, honest!"

The helos in Rambo 3 were all Aerospatiales, IIRC. The Hind-D being a Westland Puma Mk.1 with a shitload of add-ons.

This all changes now though, look at Air Force One which had a proper Hind since this little Cold War wasn't with us anymore.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-09-01 05:51pm

Red Dawn is one of the most redneck movies I've ever seen. That, and it's really stupid to boot.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 05:54pm

Red Dawn was a great movie. I especially like the fact that they actually used Hind-As for the helicopter scene; makes a lot of sense considering those were properly Cuban troops. However, where the heck did they get Hind-As? Or were those modified helicopters of another type? Those would have been very extensive modifications; the Hind-A is nearly as distinctive (though admittedly probably easier to modify) the later Hinds. But it might be easier to get ahold of some from a Third World country OTOH as well. Also at the end of the film there is a voice-over that notes that they (the U.S. guerrillas) were just an isolated part of a general resistance to the occupation by the Soviet forces.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-01 05:55pm

Remember, kids: you too can conquer and occupy America. All you need is a few strategic nukes and some paratroopers