JW won in court Blainville lose fight

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-08-31 04:06pm

Mike, rude or not, they've still got the right to come to your door and preach if they want to. You do not have to vehemently disagree with them and be and ass and call them names and whatnot to get them to not call back. Just say "I'd like for you not to call back on me again." Or, more specifically, "Put me on your do not call list." Presto, no more JW's.

Door to door is useful to many people for many things, and I'm not talking about sales persons. Being able to knock on your neighbor's door to tell them something is an important and protected freedom of speech, aside from being in this case an expression of religion.

I have a somewhat unique outlook on this, as I used to be a devote Jehovah's Witness and still regularly associate with them. I'd like to think I can see both sides of the argument; but still I'd hate to think some asshole would be a dick to my mother or grandma or *wife* just because they are trying to share what they think is a message of hope. If you don't want to hear it, fine, say so, but acting like a fool to them just reinforces their worldview and gives them something funny to relate to each other back in the car group. That in turn makes MY life harder when I try to explain you don't have to have a fundamentalist outlook on life and still be a nice person.

Montcalm - Do you really think Witnesses wouldn't talk to a muslim? In my experience, muslims were quite respectful of witnesses, and vice versa. There is a huge muslim population in southwest Indiana, and all the ones I've met were great.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-08-31 04:09pm

Christ, Enigma. A not so veiled threat about Armageddon? Great way to advance your cause, buddy. Did I miss that comeback in last month's KM or something??

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-31 04:14pm

Enigma wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:I agree that it shouldn't be criminalized, but it's fucking rude and you know it. I know a JW who even jokingly refers to his "field service" as "harassment". You know perfectly well that you're not wanted; you fuckers only agree not to go to someone's house if you're really vehemently not wanted.
Riiiiiight. You don't like it then say so when we go to your door. Just because a person at a door doesn't want us there doesn't mean that the next person doesn't want us there either.

Then why can't you just leave a brochure in their mailbox and let them call you if they're interested? Noooooo, you have to make them come to the door and hear your spiel, don't you?

I've met many people that even though they do not agree with us but they commended us for going door to door.

They admire your tenacity. Some people admired the tenacity of certain Nazi divisions too, but that doesn't mean they wanted them coming around.

How about I give you this little tidbit. Our preaching work won't go on forever. It will stop.

Yes, the end of the world is nigh, repent your sins, yadda yadda yadda. I've heard this bullshit before.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-31 04:22pm

aronkerkhof wrote:Mike, rude or not, they've still got the right to come to your door and preach if they want to.

What part of "I agree that it shouldn't be criminalized" escaped your attention?

You do not have to vehemently disagree with them and be and ass and call them names and whatnot to get them to not call back. Just say "I'd like for you not to call back on me again." Or, more specifically, "Put me on your do not call list." Presto, no more JW's.

Yeah, right. When I was a teenager, we received weekly JW visits at my parents' house. We always told them not to come back. And the next week, there they were again. Maybe you followed that policy when you were part of that cult, but these fuckers sure as hell didn't. Same goes for the people currently pestering my brother.

Door to door is useful to many people for many things, and I'm not talking about sales persons. Being able to knock on your neighbor's door to tell them something is an important and protected freedom of speech, aside from being in this case an expression of religion.

Freedom of expression does not mean that you have the right to do so wherever you want. When you come to my doorstep, you may have the right to preach, but quite frankly, I also have the right to tell you to get the fuck out and take your cult bullshit with you. I am being no more of an "ass" for doing so than you are for telling me that I deserve to burn in Hell and suffer eternal torment for disagreeing with your belief system (that's the message being peddled by every single JW, remember?)

I have a somewhat unique outlook on this, as I used to be a devote Jehovah's Witness and still regularly associate with them. I'd like to think I can see both sides of the argument; but still I'd hate to think some asshole would be a dick to my mother or grandma or *wife* just because they are trying to share what they think is a message of hope.

Their message of hope is an insult to me. They're telling me that a perfectly righteous God thinks I should suffer eternal torture for being an atheist. How is that a "message of hope?"

If you don't want to hear it, fine, say so, but acting like a fool to them just reinforces their worldview and gives them something funny to relate to each other back in the car group. That in turn makes MY life harder when I try to explain you don't have to have a fundamentalist outlook on life and still be a nice person.

How about I go to a JW's house, knock on his door, and explain to him at length that the Biblical God is a psychopathic baby-murdering asshole? After all, I'm just "expressing" myself, right? Do you know why I don't harass people in church parking lots or their own doorsteps? Because whether you believe it or not, I'm not as rude as a JW. It's time they understood that.

I don't generally swear at them when they come around; I prefer to calmly explain to them that I don't believe in worshipping baby-murderers.

Montcalm - Do you really think Witnesses wouldn't talk to a muslim? In my experience, muslims were quite respectful of witnesses, and vice versa. There is a huge muslim population in southwest Indiana, and all the ones I've met were great.

Of course. After all, they practice American-style religionism, which holds that it's OK to be of a different religion "as long as you worship the same God"

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-08-31 06:20pm

Montcalm wrote:Enigma can you tell me what your JW friends does when they ring or knock at a door and its a Muslim who answer,do you still want to tell him your version of the truth?

Why wouldn't they? Am I missing something about Muslims?

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-08-31 06:45pm

He figures the Muslim will scream "Allahkahlahalakhu!", tape a stick of dynamite to his chest, and run after the JW.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-08-31 06:54pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:He figures the Muslim will scream "Allahkahlahalakhu!", tape a stick of dynamite to his chest, and run after the JW.

Actualy i expect the muslim to shove the stick of dynamite up the JWs butt a lite it.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-08-31 11:07pm

Yeah, right. When I was a teenager, we received weekly JW visits at my parents' house. We always told them not to come back. And the next week, there they were again. Maybe you followed that policy when you were part of that cult, but these fuckers sure as hell didn't. Same goes for the people currently pestering my brother.

Yes, I did enjoy drinking my tainted kool-aid and living in the communal home and chanting the brain-numbing songs. Anyway, all I can say is that if you ask to be put on the list, they will. If they don't, call the local kingdom hall and complain. That will take care of that.

Freedom of expression does not mean that you have the right to do so wherever you want. When you come to my doorstep, you may have the right to preach, but quite frankly, I also have the right to tell you to get the fuck out and take your cult bullshit with you. I am being no more of an "ass" for doing so than you are for telling me that I deserve to burn in Hell and suffer eternal torment for disagreeing with your belief system (that's the message being peddled by every single JW, remember?)

Actually, that isn't the message being peddled. In the witness dogma, the worst that can happen to you is that you die, fin. That happens to be the worst that can happen to you in real life too, so its not so bad.

Anyway, yes, you do have the right to do so. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying its not the most productive use of your time, and it makes guys like me life hard. I mean, are you trying to re-affirm their world view, raise your blood pressure, and guarantee call backs or what? I do not like the thought of someone diliberately tormenting my mom, wife, or grandma in the many childish ways that I've seen people claim. They probably would have a good laugh about it, but I don't like it.

But then again, I guarantee 99% of the guys online saying they answer the door naked or invite witnesses to a three way are too chickenshit to do it to a real live being.

Their message of hope is an insult to me. They're telling me that a perfectly righteous God thinks I should suffer eternal torture for being an atheist. How is that a "message of hope?"

You're right, that would be a shitty message of hope. Usually, no, always, JW's preach "life in paradise", not "repent or burn in hell".

How about I go to a JW's house, knock on his door, and explain to him at length that the Biblical God is a psychopathic baby-murdering asshole? After all, I'm just "expressing" myself, right? Do you know why I don't harass people in church parking lots or their own doorsteps? Because whether you believe it or not, I'm not as rude as a JW. It's time they understood that.

Why not? There isn't a single witness I'd know that would be offended at that. And I'm still not getting why you think showing up at your door is *harassment*. Just tell them to go away, or hey, don't answer the door.

I don't generally swear at them when they come around; I prefer to calmly explain to them that I don't believe in worshipping baby-murderers.

That's good. I quite like that, so long as you can reasonably put forth that argument.

Of course. After all, they practice American-style religionism, which holds that it's OK to be of a different religion "as long as you worship the same God"

That's bullshit too. JW's talk to everybody, buddists, muslims, taoists, agnostics, athiests, whatever. For the record, my own observation seemed to be about 10% enjoyed our presence, 50% enjoyed arguing with us, %25 percent were completely indifferent, and another 15% were antagonistic. So I don't think its valid to say that witnesses knock on doors knowing their social lepers.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-09-01 12:38am

Darth Wong wrote:Then why can't you just leave a brochure in their mailbox and let them call you if they're interested?

I don't know how it is in Canada, but in the U.S., a mailbox is apparently government property and doing that would be illegal. However, some will stick a tract or magazine in the door or doorknob if it can be done so without being visible from the street.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-09-01 06:41pm

Enigma wrote:How about I give you this little tidbit. Our preaching work won't go on forever. It will stop.

Yeah right....

read about my experience with JW's and understand why I wouldn't shed one fucking tear if they were suddenly wiped from the planet.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-01 07:24pm

Um, yeah. That thread was pretty funny, in the abstract sense, but don't think for one second I believe you did 10% of that in real life. You should have stopped at the showing up at the door nude part, and having the cops called on you. It was still quasi-believable at that point.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-09-01 07:52pm

aronkerkhof wrote:Um, yeah. That thread was pretty funny, in the abstract sense, but don't think for one second I believe you did 10% of that in real life. You should have stopped at the showing up at the door nude part, and having the cops called on you. It was still quasi-believable at that point.

Yeah, and the whole shotgun bit.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-09-02 12:08am

The whole "naked at the door" gag

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-09-02 12:14am

Enigma wrote:How about I give you this little tidbit. Our preaching work won't go on forever. It will stop.

That is meaningless. That is just like telling an Atheist they are going to hell. We don't believe so you can't frighten us with your doomsday predictions.

BTW, how do you deal with the fact that the JW elders keep pushing back the date of Aramageddon? Kinda strange don't you think?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-09-02 06:59am

otter wrote:Whenever JWs come knocking on my door, I invite them in for a beer and ask them them if they want to watch some porn with me

I've wondered how they'd react if you open the door and say "hello, my name is Legion"

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-09-02 09:27am

His Divine Shadow wrote:I've wondered how they'd react if you open the door and say "hello, my name is Legion"

Just have some of that Halloween mouth-frothing stuff and I'm sure they'll either A) flip out, or B) do A) and then try to exorcise you...

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-09-02 02:11pm

aronkerkhof wrote:Um, yeah. That thread was pretty funny, in the abstract sense, but don't think for one second I believe you did 10% of that in real life. You should have stopped at the showing up at the door nude part, and having the cops called on you. It was still quasi-believable at that point.

Whether you believe it or not isn't an issue. It actually happened.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-09-02 04:34pm

I think it should be illegal for any salemen (including JWs) to knock on your door if you have a "no solicitation" sign. IMHO, this would be equivalent to the US's recent do not call list (which I think everyone should adopt).

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-09-02 04:54pm

There is an easier way to get rid of JW(stick a i give blood on your front porch)but the inconveniance is the Red Cross will knock on your door.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-02 05:46pm

Personally, my recent behaviour toward all JWs is to make one simple request:

"There's a book which outlines all of the detailed rules for Jehovah's Witnesses. I've seen it, because I know a JW, but he wouldn't let me have a copy because outsiders aren't supposed to see it. If you want me to listen to you, get me a copy of that book. If you can't or won't do that, then don't waste my time. I won't join any cult that keeps secrets from outsiders."

Mind you, this works because it's not a bluff and they can tell. I really do want a copy of that book. The mere fact that they don't want outsiders to see it guarantees my interest.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-02 06:15pm

Vertigo1 wrote: Whether you believe it or not isn't an issue. It actually happened.

Right. Well then, since the cops got called, and they actually followed up, there will be a case number. You could get a copy of that report, simply by picking up the phone and calling. It would be a trivial matter to then scan that report, and you would certainly prove me wrong and yourself right.

But you won't, cause it never happened. You'd have us all believe that the people who called the cops because you showed up naked would then not call the cops when you pulled a weapon on them, and when you turned a hose on them. And you'd also have me believe that witnesses would actually keep showing up there, not just a year later, which I might believe, but less than a month later, just because they want to convert an athiest.

Either you are a liar or a loony, either way it doesn't impress me much.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-02 06:19pm

Darth Wong wrote:Personally, my recent behaviour toward all JWs is to make one simple request:

"There's a book which outlines all of the detailed rules for Jehovah's Witnesses. I've seen it, because I know a JW, but he wouldn't let me have a copy because outsiders aren't supposed to see it. If you want me to listen to you, get me a copy of that book. If you can't or won't do that, then don't waste my time. I won't join any cult that keeps secrets from outsiders."

Mind you, this works because it's not a bluff and they can tell. I really do want a copy of that book. The mere fact that they don't want outsiders to see it guarantees my interest.

Problem with that Mike, is that they won't know what the hell you're talking about. And truth be told, I've seen the book, and I don't find much in it especially boat rocking. Maybe to an outsider, but not many rank and file witnesses. Then again, that was several years ago, so perhaps you're thinking of a particular part I've forgotten. I think your previous tack would be more effective.

Oh wait, are you saying that you've seen it, but you haven't actually *seen* it like read it?

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-02 06:20pm

Zoink wrote:I think it should be illegal for any salemen (including JWs) to knock on your door if you have a "no solicitation" sign. IMHO, this would be equivalent to the US's recent do not call list (which I think everyone should adopt).

Fun fact, the do not call list doesn't cover not for profits or political calls, and most other free speech rather than marketing ends. So JW's would still be free to call on you, as they don't actually sell the literature they offer. They quit taking money for it... oh, I guess 15 years ago for this very reason.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-02 06:28pm

aronkerkhof wrote:Problem with that Mike, is that they won't know what the hell you're talking about. And truth be told, I've seen the book, and I don't find much in it especially boat rocking. Maybe to an outsider, but not many rank and file witnesses.

I found it quite fascinating and very revealing on several levels. I suspect I dig things out of it which people who are accustomed to it don't notice. It's much like the Bible that way; I read the Old Testament and I make note of every atrocity, whereas longtime Bible readers seem to somehow skim over them without noticing (for example, everybody knows the part about the Jews bringing down the walls of Jericho, but they seem to develop collective amnesia regarding the part about them going in afterwards and slaughtering every last woman and child in the name of God).

Then again, that was several years ago, so perhaps you're thinking of a particular part I've forgotten. I think your previous tack would be more effective.

Oh wait, are you saying that you've seen it, but you haven't actually *seen* it like read it?

An acquaintance left it at my brother's gym by accident, so I was reading it for about half an hour before he caught me and took it back.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-02 06:34pm

Montcalm wrote:Enigma can you tell me what your JW friends does when they ring or knock at a door and its a Muslim who answer,do you still want to tell him your version of the truth?

We talk to all types of people. From atheists to zionists and everything in between.