Death Penalty Split from Death of Prof thread

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 01:23am

Iceberg wrote:There are still death penalty debates routinely in Minnesota, but the state has not found the pro argument sufficiently compelling in the almost 90 years since the abolishment of the death penalty to bring forth legislation reinstating it.

Then your state SUCKS! Long live Maryland and our Gas Chamber, huzzah!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-09-02 01:30am

Well CA still has the death penalty, mostly because when the Holocaust foundation sued the state sucessfully Richard Ramirez was in danger of becomming another Charlie Manson, so instead of taking the suit to a higher court the State settled and opted for Lethal Injection as their primary form of Pollitically Correct Capitol Punishment, I believe the settlement gave CA the options of Choosing that, or Hanging)

Only in California....

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-09-02 09:36am

MKSheppard wrote:Then your state SUCKS! Long live Maryland and our Gas Chamber, huzzah!

Important difference:

You can set somebody free who was wrongly imprisoned for life.
You can't resurrect somebody who was wrongly executed.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-02 09:55am

MKSheppard wrote:Then your state SUCKS! Long live Maryland and our Gas Chamber, huzzah!

Yes, just look at how the deterrent of the gas chamber has made Maryland an almost murder-free state, with violent crime plummeting down to ... oh wait a minute ...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 08:46pm

Darth Wong wrote: Yes, just look at how the deterrent of the gas chamber has made Maryland an almost murder-free state, with violent crime plummeting down to ... oh wait a minute ...

ATM we only have five or six guys on death row, and we really
haven't executed anyone in almost ten years I think...damn
liberals crying about "judicial errors"

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-09-02 09:06pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Yes, just look at how the deterrent of the gas chamber has made Maryland an almost murder-free state, with violent crime plummeting down to ... oh wait a minute ...
ATM we only have five or six guys on death row, and we really
haven't executed anyone in almost ten years I think...damn
liberals crying about "judicial errors"

Considering the number of people on death row who have been exonerated by DNA evidence in the last five years, I'd say the liberals have a point.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 09:08pm

RedImperator wrote: Considering the number of people on death row who have been exonerated by DNA evidence in the last five years, I'd say the liberals have a point.

Consider, that they've been exonerated, not executed. So the system works!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 09:15pm

MKSheppard wrote:
RedImperator wrote: Considering the number of people on death row who have been exonerated by DNA evidence in the last five years, I'd say the liberals have a point.
Consider, that they've been exonerated, not executed. So the system works!

I'm sure that's a great comfort to those who were innocent.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-09-02 09:20pm

MKSheppard wrote:
RedImperator wrote: Considering the number of people on death row who have been exonerated by DNA evidence in the last five years, I'd say the liberals have a point.
Consider, that they've been exonerated, not executed. So the system works!

No, it failed because they were wrongly convicted. The fact that the system worked AFTER their conviction does not excuse the fact that it failed in the first place.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-09-02 09:23pm

MKSheppard wrote:
RedImperator wrote: Considering the number of people on death row who have been exonerated by DNA evidence in the last five years, I'd say the liberals have a point.
Consider, that they've been exonerated, not executed. So the system works!

Yes, the system works, if you assume that before DNA testing became a viable technology, nobody was ever wrongfully convicted, and if you also assume that everyone who could be exonerated by DNA is given access to the test, which is demonstably false.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 09:30pm

The 2 people next to be executed in Texas:

Austin, Perry

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/austinperry.htm

Prior Prison Record
#292744, received on 6/7/1979 on a 30 year sentence from Dallas County for 2 counts of aggravated rape, 1 count of attempted aggravated rape, and 1 count of aggravated robbery; released on mandatory supervision on 7/24/1991.

Summary of incident
On 8/19/1992, Austin went to the Harris County home of the victim (a 9 year old white male), looking for the victim's older brother. The victim got in the car with Austin and left, presumably to look for the older brother. The skeletal remains of the victim were found on 4/23/1993 in a landfill located in Harris County.

Larry Allen Hayes

Prior Prison Record
Missouri State Prison on a 7 year sentence for Possession of Barbiturates, confined 9 months and Paroled in 1976, sentence was overturned in 1978.

Summary of incident
On 7/15/1999 in Conroe, Hayes fatally shot a 46 year old white female (his wife). Hayes used a 44 caliber pistol to shoot her eight times in the head. He left the scene of the incident and went to a convenience store. There he shot an 18 year old black female two times in the head and took her car.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-09-02 09:31pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:
By committing suicide, she escaped her punishment. Justice was not done. The only honorable course to take was for her to accept her life sentence and serve it until she died of old age.
Only if you think a life sentence is fitting for a crime like that. I don't. I think letting such a person live is a travesty, and I'm quite pleased that she killed herself rather than receive an insufficient punishment for her crime.

So instead of decades of degredation and humiliation, she suffers a few minutes of discomfort, faints, and then suffocates to death? How do you figure the latter is more punishment than the former?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 09:33pm

So what? Just because there are deserving bastards doesn't mean that the system works. So knock it off with the appeals to emotion.

If there's any question you shouldn't execute a person, it's as simple as that Shep. Death is irreversible so you'd damn better be sure. Your glib assumtion that the systems works isn't based on the facts. If the innocent have been convicted you can be damn sure that there were innocents executed.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 09:37pm

Stormbringer wrote:So what? Just because there are deserving bastards doesn't mean that the system works. So knock it off with the appeals to emotion.

The interesting thing is, virtually all of these scumbags are repeat offenders,
in the case of the childkiller, he killed that kid one year after being paroled
and released from serving a 30 year sentence for rape.

By executing them, you insure they will never re-offend again.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-09-02 09:37pm

Oh and on the subject of DNA, there's now serious doubt as to DeSalvia being the Boston Strangler, yes he did confess, But he was a diagnosed shitziod, and DNA has now cleared him of at least 2 of the murders. (since this is a serial case it raises a lot of doubts...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 09:39pm

MKSheppard wrote:The interesting thing is, virtually all of these scumbags are repeat offenders,
in the case of the childkiller, he killed that kid one year after being paroled
and released from serving a 30 year sentence for rape.

By executing them, you insure they will never re-offend again.

So? Shep, that doesn't disprove that some people on death row (and among the executed) are innocent. So stop the red herrings and appeals to emotion.

No one doubts there are deserving bastards. But that doesn't make the system work properly.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 09:41pm

Stormbringer wrote: No one doubts there are deserving bastards. But that doesn't make the system work properly.

The system has something called "appeals" and such. Usually, these guys
are executed only after ten or more years of appeals. If a decade isn't enough to prove that you didn't do it....

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-09-02 09:48pm

We know of the case in Florida where the guy exhausted all of his appeals and THEN the DEA get's audited for corruption, it appears they had their own surviance tape confirm that the chief witness against the man and the source of all the circumstancal evidence against him. WAS THE INFORMANT WHO COMMITTED THE ACTUAL MURDER. The DEA felt that taking out the drug source was more inportant then an innocent man.

Oh and what did the "Scumbag" do to get on a Drug informant's bad side. He was just a college student sleeping with the informant's ex-girlfriend.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 09:51pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: No one doubts there are deserving bastards. But that doesn't make the system work properly.
The system has something called "appeals" and such. Usually, these guys
are executed only after ten or more years of appeals. If a decade isn't enough to prove that you didn't do it....

Again, the why have people that have gone threw the system been found innocent? Really, Shep I would have expected better arguements from you. The fact that there are people that have gone through the system and been found innocent later proves that it doesn't work right all the time.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 09:56pm

Stormbringer wrote: The fact that there are people that have gone through the system and been found innocent later proves that it doesn't work right all the time.

Maybe you'd have a point if LIFE really fucking meant LIFE...

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/gatesbill.htm

Sentenced to life in California for second degree robbery and assault on a peace officer. Sentenced life (to run concurrent) again for possession of a weapon by a prisoner. Released on parole after serving approximately 6 years.

SIX years of a life sentence? What the fuck?

And of course, after being paroled, he goes into a womans house
rapes her, then strangles her to death

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 10:11pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: The fact that there are people that have gone through the system and been found innocent later proves that it doesn't work right all the time.
Maybe you'd have a point if LIFE really fucking meant LIFE...

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/gatesbill.htm

Sentenced to life in California for second degree robbery and assault on a peace officer. Sentenced life (to run concurrent) again for possession of a weapon by a prisoner. Released on parole after serving approximately 6 years.

SIX years of a life sentence? What the fuck?

And of course, after being paroled, he goes into a womans house
rapes her, then strangles her to death

So your answer to that is to continue a system we know executes the innocent? Brilliant Shep, fucking brilliant.

I've said it before and because of your titanium plated brain I'll probably have to say it again: just because there are deserving bastards doesn't mean the system works.

You've given a reason to execute the guilty, that's all well and good. That's fine and I'm all for it. But I also think we damn well ought to make sure they're guilty. And if theres any question then it should be life.

And Shep, appeals to emotion don't change the facts that the innocent have been convicted and executed.

jezrianna · Post by **jezrianna** » 2003-09-02 10:52pm

I notice that a lot of libs claim that since DNA evidence has proved innocence beyond question in many capital cases, the death penalty should be repealed. What they don't see is that DNA can also prove GUILT beyond question. I don't want innocent people executed, I want GUILTY people executed. I love DNA, because it can make all your silly 'but he might be innocent' arguments the worthless BS they are. If the man is irrefutably guilty, why not execute him?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-02 10:57pm

Stormbringer wrote:The fact that there are people that have gone through the system and been found innocent later proves that it doesn't work right all the time.

That has never been proven after a person has been executed (at least after 1918 IIRC--nearly a century), proving that the appeals process serves entirely its point and purpose in weeding out false convictions.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-02 11:03pm

Stormbringer wrote: So your answer to that is to continue a system we know executes the innocent? Brilliant Shep, fucking brilliant.

Point out to me one instance where an innocent person has been executed since 1975.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-02 11:46pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:The fact that there are people that have gone through the system and been found innocent later proves that it doesn't work right all the time.
That has never been proven after a person has been executed (at least after 1918 IIRC--nearly a century), proving that the appeals process serves entirely its point and purpose in weeding out false convictions.

Sure..... If we've got so many people innocent that are on death row and convicted don't you think it's obvious some have been wrongly executed? The fact no one has bothered to overturn convictions is because they're kind of dead.

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Death Penalty Split from Death of Prof thread

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