terrorism

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 04:50pm

with the PLO and anyone related to them, anything short of a death threat is wasting your time.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-25 06:52pm

with the PLO and anyone related to them, anything short of a death threat is wasting your time.

What are these people... The Black Knight?

HELLLO Have you had broken ribs before? Any sort of throwing motion or even breathing HURTS LIKE HELL and if you try to hard you'll go into shock, pass out and possible die

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 06:56pm

possibly die, huh? ok, death or incapacitation.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-25 07:37pm

IG-88E, why you are trying to excuse the excessive use of violence by the Israelis? What are your reasons for supporting a tyranny in the Middle East?

As far as I am concerned, fighting for one's freedom requires the use of "terrorism". The definition of terrorism has been drastically changed and distorted since Sept. 11 to basically persecute a group of people. People need to wake up and realize that Palestinians aren't the only "bad" guys in this conflict.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-25 08:02pm

By the way, slightly off-topic, but I believe the use of the atomic bomb in Japan was fully justified. It, as we all know, forced the Japanese to surrender. Yes, hundreds of thousands of people died. Yes, it was a horrible, tragic incident.

But know what would have been even more horrible? An invasion of Japan. Absolute butchery. In all liklihood, millions would have been killed. It would have been Okawina(spelling mistake) a thousandfold. The bombings, by forcing the Imperial government to capitulate, most likely saved more people than they slew.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 08:04pm

Because every time people use less than deadly force, the PLO goes nuts! Just look at Al-Qeida during Clinton's term: embassy bombings, threats, the USS COLE, and Clinton let them build up to 9/11!!!!!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-25 08:05pm

possibly die, huh? ok, death or incapacitation.

No IG-88 you don't seem to get it but so far you seem to be justfing the fact that rock throwing kids where gunned down by Tanks as ok* because just gassing them or shooting them with rubber bullets and breaking bones is not enough.... Why? Do you think the Palestienens are all mini-verisons of the Black Knight?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 08:06pm

look up

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-25 11:18pm

Because every time people use less than deadly force, the PLO goes nuts! Just look at Al-Qeida during Clinton's term: embassy bombings, threats, the USS COLE, and Clinton let them build up to 9/11!!!!!

What does the PLO has anything to do with Al-Qaeda?! Stop evading the point.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 11:22pm

What does the PLO have to do with Al-Qeida??!?!!?! Are you BRAIN DEAD?!?!!?!?!?!!

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-25 11:23pm

Mr Bean wrote to IG-88E

Do you think the Palestienens are all mini-verisons of the Black Knight?

I believe IG-88E thinks Palestinians are all terrorists that must be ruthlessly killed, man, woman, and child. He is the perfect proselytizer for the Jewish cause of racism, invasion, and genocide.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-25 11:27pm

Stop mixing the two groups. They have very different goals. They are NOT one and the same, moron.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 11:31pm

I do not believe that all Palstinians should be killed.

However, they will be sooner or later, if they don't find a more peaceful solution.

As for PLO and AQ, no they're not the same, but they do have a nudge-nudge-wink-wink relationship.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-25 11:36pm

Is that a fact or opinion?

What would a peaceful solution do? Why should the Palestinians be the ones to offer peace? They're the real victims, NOT the Israeli civilians being killed by suicide bombers. Israel keeps saying the world is asking for unilateral concession, but it is the one making the unilateral aggression.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 11:41pm

I say that BOTH sidesshould just cut the shit. If a real war starts, Isreal WILL win, but the MidEast will end up a nuke wasteland (very productive)

so, your saying that one side's civilians are more innocent that the other side's? and you figure that HOW?

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2002-09-25 11:46pm

Explain why it's wrong to see only numbers of dead innocent people. Do you believe that the grief of a widow or the lifelong sorrow of an orphan is somehow mitigated if his or her loved ones died as "collateral damage" rather than a "terrorist attack"? If 600 innocent people die at the hands of group A for the "right reason" and 100 people die at the hands of group B for the "wrong reason", justify your implicit belief that group A is good and group B is bad.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Killing innocent people is bad. People who try to differentiate between their preferred method of killing innocent people and somebody else's preferred method of killing innocent people have no moral compass. In the end, it IS just a matter of numbers; ideally zero, but in the next best case, as low as possible.

I see. So you think the Criminal Code of Canada is wrong? There is no difference between premeditated murder and homicides of pashion ... throw the degrees out the window ... the dead are just as dead? Or what about culpable manslaughter ... I mean is the widow any less distraught? Or how about nun-culpable manslaughter? Oh wait again its just another tick on the death toll. Who cares if its accidental or some bastard tortures small children to death ... it IS just a matter of numbers.

Remember kid's the moral of the story is all that matters is how many bodies are left on the ground.

Maybe one day I'll actually try to talk to you about Israel (and hence the IDF's role) in Palestine, and the numerous little details your rant blanketly forgets. But frankly I imagine you wouldn't change your position and I'm way the hell too entrenched in mine to even pretend I'm objective. Somehow I think we would both end up with the feeling of banging our heads against the wall.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-26 12:19am

IG-88E wrote:so, your saying that one side's civilians are more innocent that the other side's? and you figure that HOW?

Yes, I am. Palestinians are more innocent in this case because they are the oppressed. It's their land, and their land is occupied. They have the right to use any means necessary to drive out the invaders.

I know that some people(maybe not on here, but in the news or whatever) made the point that the Palestinians should use passive resistance(e.g. Gandhi's method, peaceful black civil rights marches/sit-ins). While I applaud the courage and resiliancy of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. to embrace bodily harm and humiliation without retribution, not everyone can take their approach. Sometimes, it's just plain stupid to do so, especially when your opponent is willing and able to exterminate you. Besides, it's against human nature to just accept injustice. One wishes to fight it, and the easiest solution is through silence.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 12:24am

Please. You think Europe and the MidEast would sit around while Isreal massacred people who didn't fight back, rather than people who do?!

Isreal would have so many people pissed off their heads would spin.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-09-26 02:44am

Emperor Chrostas the Crue wrote:You want to talk about wall of ignorance? Why is my point about the moral difference between rock throwers, and pizza eaters NEVER adressed? It is the central point of my argument. All you do is sidestep this point, and say they they are justified in engaging in such loathsome behaviour.
The "palestinians" NEVER had a state of their own, Israel is depriving them of NOTHING. My wealth doesn't impoverish you one penny. If they worked constructivly as hard as the do destrucivly, they would be halfway to paradise by now.(build farms and factories, not bombs!)
snip

If one uses that reasoning America should never have been a nation state.
Their work ethic or lack thereof, has nothing to do with it, better a ruinnation of their own making than one detimined by others, Isrealies or Arab.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-09-26 03:01am

Emperor Chrostas the Crue wrote:For those of you who think that throwing rocks is not combat, you are woefully ignorant of history. ( Darth Wong)Up until the bow and arrow, throwing rocks and spears WAS high tech combat. You should also note, that few of these engagements are purely stoners VS tankers. The infantrymen in jeeps, and on foot, ARE vulnerable to stones, and regularly take causualtys! (Including fatalities!)

Using ANY potentialy lethal weapon, against armed soldiers, IS engaging in combat, however this definition outrages you sence of morals.

snip

Talk about a false analogy! to infer that rocks and bows and arrows are remotly comparible to a modern rifle, let alone tanks and rockets is pure BS of the highest order. Kids with rocks is a police matter at most there is no need for Isrealie action in this regard. This does not excuse Palistinian action but overeaction of this kind does not improve matters, quite the opposite. [/u]

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-26 03:08am

After WWI the use of gas weapons near a civilion site was defined as a terrorist act.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-26 07:24am

while Isreal massacred people who didn't fight back, rather than people who do?!

Acutal they already did

Feb 1998:A peceful March by Palenstien Protesters was halted when the Isrialy army opened fire on the crowd claming that some-one had throw a rock, Eight Palensitens died, twenty six where wounded

Jan 2000: A Palestienan man was gun down by the IA after bending down to change the radio station as he apporched a checkpoint, Sixteen bullets where found in his body

Nov 2001-Present, Hundreds are killed each month by the IA as they try and force Palenstienans from former Jewish Settlements which where former Palenstien settlements, those that resist forcible deportation are killed on the spot, Hundreds more are killed by accident each month incullding an Roman Caltholic nun and sixteen children when the IA opened up with RPGs and bullets on a building where a suspected Palenstian sniper was said to be hiding instead killing a classroom full of children and thier teacher

In the last six year less than twenty memebers of the IA have been charged with manslaughter, TWO where convicted....

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 10:18am

But the PLO is still acting like a bunch of rabid dogs (or monkeys

) If they stopped, and ALL started practicing satyagraha (sp?) MAYBE things wouldn't be so bad!

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-09-26 10:25am

IG-88E wrote:Please. You think Europe and the MidEast would sit around while Isreal massacred people who didn't fight back, rather than people who do?!

So fighting back implies that Palestinians are NOT helpless and outpowered?! Get real. Many rape victims try to fight back even when the rapist is much stronger than they are. Does that mean the police should not help them simply because they tried to protect themselves?

Being defiant doesn't mean you are on a level playing ground. The act of defiance itself is a mark of courage, but it doesn't signal power.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 10:34am

Besides the point. The PLO fights. Isreal fights. People are sick of hearing them fight. Now, if Isreal shot up people who peacefuly lined to to protest their domination, reactions would be SLIGHTLY different.